Rule # 4 - providing a translation

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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by RobertT »

It was linked to another site, surely the persons then going there could also just use google translate if they find it in Afrikaans. As DB says it is easy to use. Gmlsmit expressed concern that in translating he might not translate it correctly. The post on this site remained in English. What was more surprising/concerning for me is the focus turned to what language was used and the importance of the message info neglected. :hmz: with the poaching being so important, are we to ignore the message because it is not in English or shoot the messenger because they did not bring the message in English, let's get real people. Something that has happened and could have an effect on the poaching was almost removed because it wasn't in English. :slap:
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by DinkyBird »

RobertT wrote:What was more surprising/concerning for me is the focus turned to what language was used and the importance of the message info neglected. :hmz: with the poaching being so important, are we to ignore the message because it is not in English or shoot the messenger because they did not bring the message in English, let's get real people. Something that has happened and could have an effect on the poaching was almost removed because it wasn't in English. :slap:

RobertT - the poster, who himself stated that he grew up speaking English, and provided a translation a few days earlier for another such article see here was asked to please comply with the rules of the forums and provide a translation. This was done after debate on the rules. If the translation had been provided when it was asked for, the entire debate over the rules would not even have happened.

Edit, additional: And keep in mind that any link in a post is part and parcel of that post which constitutes that everything should be in English.

Please do not come here now and lay blame where there is none! There is a poaching topic for poaching discussions, please do not come and spin this topic!

As I said in a previous post, we need to be consistent and not just cry out that rules within SANParks be enforced when it suits us, and then say it is totally fine to ignore other rules in SANParks when it suits us.
Last edited by DinkyBird on Mon Jun 16, 2014 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: added statement
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by JenB »

I guess that around 25% of the active members can understand Afrikaans. Add maybe another 25% that would go to another site and feed the text into Google translate.

So that means that the important messages RT is referring to could be missed by half of the readership. :doh:
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by gmlsmit »

I never realized that so few active members actually understood Afrikaans. :o
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by RobertT »

JenB wrote:I guess that around 25% of the active members can understand Afrikaans. Add maybe another 25% that would go to another site and feed the text into Google translate.

So that means that the important messages RT is referring to could be missed by half of the readership. :doh:


Thank you JenB, I am going to assume you perhaps understand better what I was saying. 50% would not have seen message because of a translation. Could the mods not have just done a translation? It is not a blaming thing DB, but the fact that it became around a language and the message got lost for a while.

This is also not about spin, but an observation/ opinion on my part, am I not allowed one or allowed to express it? Perhaps it was time a debate about the rule was necessary to determine how important info in an important thread is managed going forward. Perhaps it should automatically be translated by a mod seeing that it is in a thread which does not allow editing.

Please explain why Werner-Patat post 3 pages prior on the poaching thread did not have the same uproar? It was seen by all the same people. Sorry Werner.
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by Stark »

Hi guys,

My POV as an English-only speaker I can say that I definitely appreciate translations. I use Google Translate, but you can easily miss context when you convert Afrikaans to English.

It isn't only news articles, but often I see Saffies using Afrikaans slang or common sayings that send me on the hunt to be in on the conversation. 8)

I didn't realize that posting links to stories that aren't in English should also include a translation. I started the thread about the recent suspensions in SANParks with such a link and didn't provide a translation. I will at least include the translation from Google going forward.
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by DinkyBird »

The post where Werner-Patat did ask if someone would translate for him? We are hoping someone will assist. Perhaps you will RobertT? We will be grateful if you do. You can just quote the post and add the translation. But yes, we should have acted sooner on that post. You are right.

The rule is worded very clearly - the responsibility of the translation is with the poster. The mods do try and assist when and where they can, but it is not their responsibility to do this.

I see Stark posted while I was typing the above.

The fact of the matter is many members do ask for translations all over the forums when none are provided, and this is a perfectly reasonable request and again why the rule is there.

The request for the original post under discussion to be translated was exactly so more readers could understand the content of the article and make it more available.
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by RobertT »

DinkyBird wrote:The post where Werner-Patat did ask if someone would translate for him? We are hoping someone will assist. Perhaps you will RobertT? We will be grateful if you do. You can just quote the post and add the translation. But yes, we should have acted sooner on that post. You are right.


DB, as much as I would like to translate and I would have if I thought I could be accurate, I have a confession to make. Although I did military service many years ago, my army buddies etc came to the conclusion that my Afrikaans was so bad I should stick to English. It was quite an admission on their part if you think this was 27/28 years ago. I did get the name soutie (abr) for my efforts. :lol: Stark I shall send you a pm with the description of Soutie if you require.

Am sure at this point tho Werners post does not require a translation otherwise it would have been requested sooner. It was an example.
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by arks »

Stark wrote:It isn't only news articles, but often I see Saffies using Afrikaans slang or common sayings that send me on the hunt to be in on the conversation. 8)

Stark, I am similarily "linguistically challenged", so I will often ask for a translation when a forumite uses an Afrikaans word or phrase. One thing that I've noted, having both Afrikaans- and English-speaking South African friends, is that those for whom Afrikaans is their home language quite unconsciously speak English with Afrkaans words often mixed in, slipping easily between the two languages, whereas the Englsh speakers use Afrikaans words much less often.

By asking when an Afrikaans word that I don't recognise is used, I've managed to learn a bit of Afrikaans and to appreciate the untranslatable expressiveness of many Afrikaans words. :wink:
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by DinkyBird »

Arks, I also think it has a lot to do with the different areas in SA. When we lived in the Eastern Cape, in East London, it was very English speaking, and actually we had more Xhosa words interspersed in our daily communications.

Now where we live in the Cape, Afrikaans is the language one is addressed in.

I am sure it differs all around the country depending as the areas are more dominated by one of the many official languages.

And I think we of the Rainbow nation at times do not even notice that we are not using pure English. Even a single language differs from region to region. We have a very Eastern Cape accent (known as a Border 'Bodah' accent) that stands out here in the Cape. :lol:
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by arks »

DinkyBird wrote:Arks, I also think it has a lot to do with the different areas in SA. When we lived in the Eastern Cape, in East London, it was very English speaking, and actually we had more Xhosa words interspersed in our daily communications.

Now where we live in the Cape, Afrikaans is the language one is addressed in.

I am sure it differs all around the country depending as the areas are more dominated by one of the many official languages.

And I think we of the Rainbow nation at times do not even notice that we are not using pure English. Even a single language differs from region to region. We have a very Eastern Cape accent (known as a Border 'Bodah' accent) that stands out here in the Cape. :lol:

That's the thing about a large country, DB, there are always vast regional differences -- even in the US, where the majority speak English (and we have only the one official language -- at least so far), and moreso in a country as diverse as South Africa. What we need now on the forum is more who use the occassional Xhosa or Zulu or Shangaan word(s) :whistle: :wink:
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by MATTHYS »

Stark wrote:It isn't only news articles, but often I see Saffies using Afrikaans slang or common sayings that send me on the hunt to be in on the conversation. 8)

You might find South Africa English - a guide for other mother tongues an interesting read, Stark.
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by anne-marie »

even in English (special English) I have often lot of difficuties to understand
by special English : mother tongue (tongue is a muscle) :hmz: why not mother language... :doh: :redface:
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by arks »

anne-marie wrote:even in English (special English) I have often lot of difficuties to understand
by special English : mother tongue (tongue is a muscle) :hmz: why not mother language... :doh: :redface:

Yes, anne-marie, English can be perplexing, but so can French :wink: And in English, "tongue" can (amongst several definitions) be a synonym for "language"
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Re: Rule # 4 - providing a translation

Unread post by anne-marie »

thank you arks... indeed perplexing :wink:
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