Open Question to the Forum

Tell us what we can do better, need to clear the air, voice your concern or provide feedback about the forum
User avatar
DinkyBird
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47950
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:54 pm
Location: The Beautiful Cape

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by DinkyBird »

kesheshe wrote:Now I believe we have a rule that on some topics we cannot edit our posts.

It is not a rule, it is the way the forums are set to function. We have had a number of cases where some members post posts that cause emotions to rise on the forums/break forum rules etc, and then go back and either remove the entire content, or edit their posts to read differently - this constitutes trolling; and the affected topics end up meaningless, or the members whose replies are left to the now edited posts are out of context.


Only two forums do not allow for post edit functions - Forum Indaba and Chill Room.
- Dalene
crackers
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:54 am
Location: Australia

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by crackers »

Trolling? No I think it reflects that the members who do that are offended, disenfranchised, disappointed and want to totally remove themselves and their posts as a result.

Why this is such a problem to warrant a change of forum function is beyond me.
Getting married in Kruger in 2014
User avatar
saraf
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:19 pm
Location: Portsmouth, England

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by saraf »

crackers wrote:
Why this is such a problem to warrant a change of forum function is beyond me.


Please see this topic. viewtopic.php?f=73&t=78160

Perhaps you could explain how having a topic with a blank opening post helps anyone?
User avatar
Stark
Virtual Ranger
Virtual Ranger
Posts: 2092
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:52 am
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by Stark »

Interesting choice of words, not a rule but a function.

And only in two forums, where the justification saraf brings up really could happen to any thread anywhere. I would think that SANParks would want to use this function everywhere if this is their reasoning.


I wonder, how many times have threads been so permanently altered by post edits, as described above, that debate ceases?

Now, how many posts have been self corrected because something was said in the heat of the moment?

Now, how many edits to clarify a post or correct verbiage or spelling have been done?

What data was used to come to the conclusion that this inconvenience is a good idea?

For example, let's say you are in a hot topic. Somebody says something that makes you mad. You post in anger something you regret and want to edit immediately. Before you could take care of this yourself. Now you can't. You ask the mods to edit your post. What if the mods decide the part you want to edit is against the rules? What will happen.

Now apply the same scenario to others. Most recently, Aat or Duke or arks or Sharifa or me or MM or Hawk. (All active in a healthy debate and with good opinions on varying sides). Will all get the same attention under this function? No extrajudicial undertones or motives?

I'd like clarification from mods that posts will be edited by mods at the mites request without bias of poster or content if the edit brings a post back into line with forum rules.
"Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors." West African Proverb

KNP 2021 was a blast, so we're going back in 2022!
17 Oct. - Biyamiti
20 Oct. - Satara
23 Oct. - Olifants
26 Oct. - Lower Sabie
User avatar
saraf
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:19 pm
Location: Portsmouth, England

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by saraf »

Moderators operate within the forum rules. If we feel your edit will breech those rules we will inform you.

If you don't trust us, fair enough, as Stevenjm says in his announcement you are free to contact the SANParks E-Business team to amend the topic for you.
User avatar
Stark
Virtual Ranger
Virtual Ranger
Posts: 2092
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:52 am
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by Stark »

My question isn't whether the edit is decided by mods to breach a rule, but the original post that the mite wants to change.

This isn't about trust, saraf. In fact I rarely edit my posts unkess my fat fingers messed things up or my small phone screen means I was rambling. It's about uniformity and letting your customer base know how it will be used.

I simply asked a question of execution. And one if data as to why the change has been made. And one as to why it's two forums and not all.
Last edited by saraf on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Correcting typos
"Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors." West African Proverb

KNP 2021 was a blast, so we're going back in 2022!
17 Oct. - Biyamiti
20 Oct. - Satara
23 Oct. - Olifants
26 Oct. - Lower Sabie
User avatar
MATTHYS
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 98829
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:30 am
Location: Breërivier, South Africa

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by MATTHYS »

Stark wrote:It's about uniformity and letting your customer base know how it will be used.

I simply asked a question of execution. And one if data as to why the change has been made. And one as to why it's two forums and not all.

Stark, have you read the the announcement : Topic / Forum locking change ?
aquila non capit muscas
User avatar
anne-marie
Legendary Virtual Ranger
Legendary Virtual Ranger
Posts: 6834
Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:36 pm
Location: Lausanne (Switzerland)

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by anne-marie »

anne-marie wrote:mine was linked as well... a non-commercial one... only my pictures for me, my family and friends... and like by magic... vanished :?
:hmz:


exemple :
I erased 4 words of this one :hmz:

anne-marie wrote:mine was linked as well................ only my pictures for me, my family and friends... and like by magic... vanished :?
:hmz:



but it's possible to modify... via "quote" :wink:
It is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye
Le Petit Prince


Kgalagadi lover… for ever :k
User avatar
Stark
Virtual Ranger
Virtual Ranger
Posts: 2092
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:52 am
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by Stark »

Hi Matthys, I did.

The reasoning is to keep the integrity of topics in two areas of the forum and, if a change is requested by a forumite, such a request can be sent to either the mods or the SANParks team.

My questions

- sensitive and important topics are all over the forum, in many different areas. Why just lock down these two?

- how many times has a sensitive topic been derailed by forumites in these two areas? (points to the significance of the problem)

- how many times has a post in these areas of the forum been modified by forumites for reasons that don't derail the topic? (points towards level of inconvenience compared to the significance of the problem)

- if a forumite posts something in the heat of the moment (many of done this) and regrets it and asks for the post to be edited, but the mods decide that the original unedited post breaks a hard rule (like the rule about swearing) or a soft rule (like the rule about insinuation or speculation) but the edited would be within the rule, what will happen? We could self-police in the past, but not anymore.

I'm not looking to cause anybody problems, just looking to understand. :thumbs_up:
"Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors." West African Proverb

KNP 2021 was a blast, so we're going back in 2022!
17 Oct. - Biyamiti
20 Oct. - Satara
23 Oct. - Olifants
26 Oct. - Lower Sabie
User avatar
DinkyBird
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 47950
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 5:54 pm
Location: The Beautiful Cape

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by DinkyBird »

Dear Stark

The decision to remove the edit functions from two forums has been carefully considered, and past history on the forums examined, in making this decision. How the forums will be managed now that this function has been set has also been carefully considered. We (the mod team and SANParks EBiz/PR) do not just shoot from the hip as and when it suits us when managing the forums. There are closed forums, and regular meetings, where management of the forums are discussed by the admin team.

The Forum Indaba is a forum where SANParks policy discussions are held, and the Chill Room is a forum where forum/website issues are discussed.

Your examples of 'self-policing' is just one of the problems that arise on the forums that we are trying to prevent going forward. It is not acceptable to make a post that stirs up the forums and then go back and edit it. Members need to think before they post and if a member is regretful after posting, then they need to post an apology or correction in a following post, and not go and edit the offending post thereby making responding posts by other members look out of context or irrelevant.

As we have conveyed to you on a number of occasions in the past, the mods have a strict code which prevents us from discussing actions taken with anybody else. Do you have information that we moderators are not aware of when you make the inferences that the moderators are biased and unfair? We find these insinuations from you insulting.

Please know that you are more than welcome to escalate your claims of moderator bias within SANParks.

The Moderator Team
- Dalene
User avatar
Carol g
Legendary Virtual Ranger
Legendary Virtual Ranger
Posts: 6282
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:59 pm
Location: Bloemfontein

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by Carol g »

My late father was a very wise old man, one bit of advice he gave me was that if something or someone got me all upset, I should not say anything for an hour or two, calm down and then respond.i find this advice very handy and it often prevents me from saying something in the heat of the moment that I will regret later

Maybe the above principle will be great for all to use, then maybe the need to edit posts won't be necessary
Those who have no love in there hearts for animals, have no love in there hearts at all
User avatar
Stark
Virtual Ranger
Virtual Ranger
Posts: 2092
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 1:52 am
Location: Arizona, USA

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by Stark »

Dear DinkyBird

The self policing explanation you've provided is perfectly understandable and I appreciate the context. I see nothing wrong with forumites asking for clarity on a forum policy.

I'm glad to hear that decisions are carefully thought out. Even the Facebook like decision can be explained as a well-intentioned attempt. I asked about the significance of the problem (which you've answered), why it is in 2 areas and not more (which you've answered), the inconvenience this will cause (which I infer SANParks has determined will be negligible), and how changes will be handled (which you've answered).

Note that your last response, and many of the responses given by mods since the policy change was instituted, provided more and greater detail (and more and greater understanding) of the policy. This is a good thing. :thumbs_up: There is no debate at all that the policy is clearer now due to the discussion that has taken place than it was from the original notice.

On a personal note, if you're insulted, that isn't my intention. I like and respect most of the mods that I've interacted with. Yes, I have a healthy wariness of extrajudicial moderation on this board. Your statement that it doesn't happen and my experience that is has happened don't mesh. It's a difference of opinion, not unlike the personal barbs that have been sent my way in the Tuskers thread by another mite. He thinks he knows me, I think he's wrong. The posts stand. We move on. 8)

But DB, you have this thread, and many posts in the tuskers thread, that are not from me but from other mites that are wary of how things are done. Remove me from the equation if you want to and look at what others have said. What a lost opportunity to engage with dissatisfied customers and drill into specifics. I hope that SANParks or the mods would do so instead of being insulted. I'm more than willing to chat, in whatever venue you choose, if you do decide to look for opportunities based on feedback. :k
"Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors." West African Proverb

KNP 2021 was a blast, so we're going back in 2022!
17 Oct. - Biyamiti
20 Oct. - Satara
23 Oct. - Olifants
26 Oct. - Lower Sabie
User avatar
Tumble Weed
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:19 am
Location: In the wind...

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by Tumble Weed »

A while back there was a debate about rules not being enforced(I think it was about Quiet Camps) by staff members, and staff members not abiding by the rules. I used an example of staff kids riding bikes in camp.

Without my consent the Mods split the thread and created a new thread under my name about 'Bikes in Camps'. It was not my intention to create an issue out of this, I was just using it as an example.

How come I was not consulted? What gives the Mods the right to create a thread under my name that I had no intention of creating? The whole point was lost when the thread was split and I am now left with this thread under my name?

Am I not allowed any input when this happens? The whole topic was completely hijacked from my original point I was making!
User avatar
saraf
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Posts: 7811
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:19 pm
Location: Portsmouth, England

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by saraf »

Do you really want to turn this into a post mortem on every single action the Mods have taken since 2004? It'll get really tedious...

Please note the following:

3. Moderators will keep the SANParks forums clean, tidy and easy to read. At the moderators' discretion posts/topics will be edited or removed.
User avatar
Tumble Weed
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger
Posts: 263
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:19 am
Location: In the wind...

Re: Open Question to the Forum

Unread post by Tumble Weed »

Thanks for the great response saraf!
Post Reply