SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Project

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Hawk
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by Hawk »

Thanks for the post AdrianFW, no hard feelings at all. We're all in it together and that includes all the wonderfull SANParks people who dedicate their lives to protecting our wildlife.
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by cfraser »

DinkyBird wrote:
cfraser wrote:If he had accepted the opportunity to work together, then I don't think this thread would even exist...

I do agree completely with this statement cfraser.


So maybe there is more to this story then.
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by DinkyBird »

Cfraser, yes there is. Thank you for acknowledging that.
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by Lionspoon »

And now we have hit rock bottom...

Sorry, DinkyBird, but your last remark is absolutely uncalled for in your role as a moderator.
If only half the people who have made their experiences with Sanparks and this forum in this
way or another would hint to something that went wrong like this matter obviously did, we
would be heavily reprimanded for it.

I really think this is not the way to manage this hot topic as aat has no means to react to it.
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by AFRICAT »

I have an idea…how about having a third tier of input, say a Forum Member Panel, in conjunction with the Mods and SanParks, who can actually mediate forum members' ideas and opinions apart from the strictly toe-the-line stance? This panel would work in tandem w/ the Mods and SanParks personnel to ensure ALL viewpoints were equally represented. This would provide an avenue where "WE" knew our views were represented in an environment of hostility that now exists and that simply hurts SanParks as well as the Mods (I love you guys 'n gals, nothing but POSITIVE interaction from my experience).

College universities have student forums and businesses have client groups who represent "the man in the street" opinions. So why not have a third arm here of respected Forum members who can offer incredibly valuable input? And the bottom line is, you can take their advice or leave it. What's to lose from being more inclusive and earnestly listening to opposing viewpoints? BOTH sides may just come away more enlightened.

Some members who immediately come to mind as level headed, passionate, and rational as possible members of the panel: Stark & Imberbe, though there are MANY others worthy of the challenge...ESPECIALLY those members who no longer participate in this forum for the same reasons this issue has become such a hotbed of hostility.
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by JenB »

Lionspoon wrote:And now we have hit rock bottom...

Sorry, DinkyBird, but your last remark is absolutely uncalled for in your role as a moderator.
If only half the people who have made their experiences with Sanparks and this forum in this
way or another would hint to something that went wrong like this matter obviously did, we
would be heavily reprimanded for it.

I really think this is not the way to manage this hot topic as aat has no means to react to it.

Lionspoon, it is becoming clearer to me that there is more to this than what we are aware of. We've read Aat's side of the story and we understand. Maybe if we read SANParks' side, we'll also understand?

The problem with SANParks and the mods for that matter, is that the will never try and defend themselves by posting their side of any disagreement because they don't want to cause embarrassment to people. They would rather just sit and take the flack...... Or maybe the issue is not completely dealt with by SANParks so it might not yet be the time for them to speak out? I'm not sure?

I have a feeling that time will tell..........
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by onewithnature »

Unfortunately, rising emotions, pride, and ego often hinders the facts at hand. Mods, I know your jobs are particularly difficult as you often have to be the referee between SANParks and forum members, attempting to keep both satisfied, and I laud you for your ongoing commitment, as I always have.

That having been said, I know that the forumites will take whatever you say to be the true representation of the stance of SANParks on the tusker issue. It is therefore important that your words reflect the attitudes of those higher up in this regard. However, I'm not even sure if the issue has indeed so broad a scope to involve the major SANParks players, and I suspect it is currently only restricted to a few people wishing to upgrade the official tusker site, and that there seems to be an undercurrent of intrapolitical discontent over the value and superiority of the thread that Aat spent so many volunteer hours developing.

I think that, irrespective of what the truth of the underlying story between Aat and these individuals are, SANParks should be careful not to besmirch his contributions towards elephant conservation and understanding. He has set a standard that SANParks will be hard-pressed to catch up to, and even if they do, to maintain at that level.

Ultimately, what SANParks should want is an effective and easily-accessible tusker site that not only names the current and emerging tuskers, but, especially, ensures that the photographs of these magnificent beasts are clear and accurate enough to allow successful identification of them in the field. That is what Aat has achieved, and why his site is so successful. I would drive through Kruger, find a tusker or tusker-to-be, take some photographs of his lordship - taking care to include the ears and tusks from various angles - and then submit to Aat, who would then volunteer his assistance on identifying the tusker. The tusker needs a name for this process to be successful; Aat named many of them himself out of necessity - always using similar strategies to how previous great tuskers of Kruger were named by the authorities. He HAD to name most of these (emerging) tuskers because SANParks, at that time, had no data nor name for them. I was thrilled when I learned that I had seen some well-known elephant bulls, and could immerse myself in the joy of so doing especially BECAUSE they had an identifiable name. Maybe some people within SANParks disagree with Aat's given-name of a particular tusker (which personally I cannot understand why that should be so), but then perhaps they should have taken the trouble and time in the first place to photograph or acquire photographs of that tusker, categorise him, and then give him a name that we could then use to track and enjoy him. Aat has already done that and, in so doing, has brought not only fame to those elephants, but also immensely increased the enjoyment people have seeking the big boys. It is no longer only about the Big 5, but, in essence, one could say the Big 6, the sixth being a magnificent tusker. Give due where due should be given.

I believe that a common ground MUST be sought between the two antagonists so that not only the support of the informed and involved public is garnered, but so that the overall momentum of conservation and knowledge of these splendid pachyderms is maintained and ever driven forwards to greater heights. Someone needs to step up and be a leader in this regard. Otherwise, sadly, we may always be operating at a less-than-ideal level of activity. Great tuskers deserve more. Come on, folks, show that the real target here is the conservation and delectation of one of the greatest animals to ever live, and that it is not about the ineffectual bantering around of personal slights and attacks. We need to reconcile our differences and forge forward together under the banner of what defines all of us: the love and protection of Nature and all her bounty. There have been many good suggestions by forumites that deserve investigation. I would like to see the responsible individual(s) from SANParks step forward and lead by example, for I do not think that I am exaggerating by saying that, if they do not, their Tuskers Project is in jeopardy of failing.
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billyf
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by billyf »

OWN, I share your sentiments, thank you for verbalisng them in a manner which I would not have been able to.

So come on folks, there must be a way in which the various parties can work together to build both a scientific, accurate and enjoyable database that all can appreciate and, where possible contribute to.
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by Sharifa »

Greeting from Malelane Camp. We had a great wild dog sighting this morning.
How appropriate that I am posting this on Human Rights Day.

Disclaimer: I am not Anti HR or Anti SANParks. My SO and I still promote South Africa and SANParks like we always have been doing – just not on this forum. I will not comment on the Government.

1. My SO gave Nedret some advice when he resigned as a Mod – she chose to ignore it
2. My SO offered to meet with Imberbe when he questioned us on the forum. He ignored this
3. My SO then asked Imberbe whether he would like to know how someone who slaved 2 days over stove so that the VHRs could raise funds might now be “negative”. He got an insulting PM.
4. I got insulted by ReyT on the forum. I left the forum at that stage only returning a few weeks ago
4. I mostly agree with what Stark is saying
5. I mostly disagree with what JenB and Hawk are staying.
6. I absolutely agree with DinkyBird when she says there are two sides to the story. I will tell mine.

Before I do tell my story I reach out to ReyT and Nedret, I ask if you are you interested in my story. Could there perhaps just be something to what I have to say. I have spoken to my SO and he is willing to attend this meeting to again go through what is wrong and how it can be improved.

What have you got to lose?

What could you gain?

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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by 100ponder »

At the bottom of P8 of a thread called "SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Project" and not a single contribution to further the subject yet ! ! !
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Stark
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by Stark »

No it's started in another thread with pretty rapid feedback from SANParks.

Taken in context as a scientific project with heavy public engagement, SANParks has done a decent recovery after the initial stumbles of communication and preparedness.
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by Son godin »

Looking back at older post I noted frequent update from Aat and sharing information on the Forum about the project. See link below.

http://www.sanparks.org/forums/viewtopic.php?style=2&f=21&t=72642

I know I am slightly off-topic but would like to know what is happening about the Kgalagadi Lion Project and Mapungubwe project. I cannot find anything about these projects on the forum, besides topics to post photos. If it is important to incorporate the Tusker thread under SANParks forum, will we see the same for the Lion Projects or is this just a KNP initiative?

I am sure other forumites would like to know more about all research activities in all SANParks and Transfrontier parks, specially where their contributions are requested.
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by anne-marie »

I'm so sad too :cry:
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by Weltenman »

This is a sad development, I had hoped that, even though there seems to be difference of opinion between Aat and SANParks on this project, there would be a way they could share resources and work together, for conservation. But it seems this will not be possible.

I would hope that we as forumites will try and support this initiative, as I am guilty of this before, not having sent my photos to SANParks about a possible emerging tusker. Without photos and information this project won't reach the heights that it can. With all the talk that elephant ivory is next in line for poachers, it might be prudent to look at these sort of initiatives that would only spread positive press.
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Stark
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Re: SANParks calls for participation in Emerging Tuskers Pro

Unread post by Stark »

I hope that SANParks and Aat can find common ground for the greater good as well.

It would be a shame to have two competing initiatives, but perhaps two complimentary initiatives would be a benefit to all, including the Ellie's.

As for the forum oversight discussion, I sincerely hope it bears fruit to improve this SANParks offering.
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KNP 2021 was a blast, so we're going back in 2022!
17 Oct. - Biyamiti
20 Oct. - Satara
23 Oct. - Olifants
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