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JPG or RAW Photography

Discuss and share your wildlife photography, filming and equipment
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JDW
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by JDW » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:17 pm

Gents
One question to ask yourself - why have you taken the image and what are you going to do with it.
I take lots of action rugby images for local clubs, Royal Navy and the Army and send them to them as low resolution images which they are able to manage easily. The images have a limited life so need to be on websites, local media, facebook, etc within 24 hours otherwise the moment is lost - spending hours sorting and processing 600+ images is just not realistic if captured in RAW.
These are all captured in jpeg because I don't need the extra quality that RAW gives me. If doing squad or individual mug shots then RAW is used and high quality image is produced.
Most Wildlife and other images are captured in RAW because I want the quality and they are not time critical.
What does the average amateur get from RAW probably little or nothing and most people viewing the images will not notice any difference in quality.
Just my thoughts
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JDW
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anne-marie
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by anne-marie » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:55 pm

when I return home with more than 11000 pictures... I think I have enough work with JPG... :lol:
and it's quasi not possible to have a Cheetah's chase in raw... not quick enough :hmz:
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moobox
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by moobox » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:24 am

Some good points and I'm being educated. And come to think of it, when I set my camera on continuous burst mode, there is quite some delay in the images to get saved to the card. But I do believe that there are situations where RAW would (or could) be preferred. eg. animal portraits.

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Scottm
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by Scottm » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:33 am

I capture both RAW and JPeg. Storage space is inexpensive and while I seldom rework my raw images, not having them removes this opportunity. On occasion, I have been able to recover a great images that were badly exposed, something that is less easily done if the original RAW image is not available.

I am sure that many people have taken many images with incorrect white balance settings (sometimes completely wrong for the scene) and have either had to discard those images, or try to rework them in JPeg format. Raw images give you the ability (and the opportunity) to get a better outcome from any rework than would otherwise be the case. I would suggest that you should not limit your opportunities before your start.
"Take nothing but memories, leave nothing but footprints"

Photographs help to crystallize memories, but cannot be seen to be a replacement of them!

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JDW
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by JDW » Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:28 pm

Moobox
The delay in saving the image to the card is caused by your camera's inability to process/crunch the data quickly enough.
All D-SLR cameras have a buffer where the captured image is temporarily stored whilst the camera processes/crunches the data and saves it to the card, the faster the card the quicker it will down load. Also the bigger the file the longer it takes.
The more professional the camera the bigger the buffer and the faster the camera engine processes/crunches the data.
On the cheaper D-SLR cameras burst the buffer quickly fills, once full the camera will not take further images until space becomes available. Once there is space then the camera will start working again but slowly as it is just topping up the buffer.
I use the Nikon D3 which has a large buffer and rarely fills the buffer even using RAW. On jpeg fine its like the shoot out at the OK coral!!
Because I cover sport (rugby) I need to capture fast moving events and tend to capture in bursts of 3/4 images with a very short split second pause between them. This works for me and also helps with accuracy as whilst you are shooting bursts the camera has a tendency to move off of the target subject, very much like firing a machine gun.
Hope this helps
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JDW
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2016 - South Africa/USA/Canada?

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moobox
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by moobox » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:21 am

OK thanks JDW. I was thinking that it sort of had something to do with the speed of the SD card as well. But I really didnt know so I am grateful for this insight.

How would I know what the size of a buffer is on a camera seeing as I am in the market for a new DSLR? Seems to me this is an important spec if you want to shoot action or wildlife. I have looked around and cant find any spec referring to "buffer". Do the manufacturers call it something else?

Cheers - Ed

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bert
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by bert » Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:49 am

Thank you for your input JWD
Indeed, buffering with JPG is much faster then with RAW
(at least with the "older" camera's)
Have a Canon EOS 60 and did some pied kingfishers landing on a branch
The sequence worked well with JPG and not with RAW

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Imax
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by Imax » Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:12 pm

Moobox, its also called internal memory. Your camera has around 105mb. The Canon 7D that I use has around 270MB and can take around 15 18mp raw photos, and 94 jpg's.

I had a 10D with a very small buffer and RAW's were always a problem, even though I bought the fastest cards at that time.

So ultimately the delay is based on four things:

1. Photo size: many small files are moved faster than a few large files (just look at how long it takes to copy a 1000 photos vs one movie on your computer)

2. The size of your internal memory. Not all of that memory is used to store photo's but also run the programmes that run you camera. Plonking the memory full with a burst then makes your camera even slower as there is also less space for the programmes to run.

3. Speed of your memory card: obviously a faster one can transfer faster, but is limited by point 4

4. The speed of you camera's processor. The higher end cameras and newer ones have faster processors. If your processor is slower than your card (as i had with the 10D) it can only go as fast as the processor.

Interestingly I found out the other day that the 7D has twin DIGIC processors, with each performing different functions in the camera, but with bursts runs in a master and slave mode, allowing much longer bursts up to 25 frames.

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JDW
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by JDW » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:47 pm

Yoda
Capturing in both RAW + JPeg will eat up your memory cards very quickly.
Once I have captured the image where possible I then view the image on the camera and delete those which are not viable.
I then download the cards on to a computer every day.
Once downloaded I do a quick view and further delete those which are clearly not worth keeping.
I then process those which I consider worth enhancing and save both the original and jpeg versions to an external hard drive. Of course once processed the result is a much smaller file saved in jpeg.
Long winded but worthwhile.
It works for me
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JDW
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squirrel_asc
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by squirrel_asc » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:57 am

moobox wrote:Tell me please, do you keep your RAW files? I mean, you do a bit of post-processing and end up with what you think is about right. But at some stage in the future there could be a more right, not so?

Cheers - Ed

Absolutely.

Software improve all the time, and hopefully so does your post-processing skills. A few years down the line, it's quite possible that you can do a much better job than you were able to do originally. Also, you might want to try a new effect, or a different technique, or...

Storage space is cheap these days, and continuously getting cheaper. Keep those raws!
(Sometimes, when I do heavier processing on a photo, I even keep the full-size, 16-bit tif with all the layers...)

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moobox
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by moobox » Sat Aug 02, 2014 12:29 am

So, we're talking about post-processing and such and I guess it's pretty much the reason to shoot RAW at all. And I have mentioned that I am new at this game. Now, I've been doing some of the PP and stuff and making decent progress. But everyone I speak with seems to work with Photoshop or Lightroom with the occasional DXO user.

I've been using Canon's Digital Photo Professional. And there isnt too much available on the interwebz as far as reference or tutorial material goes so you're pretty much on your own. Looking at the Photoshop options and it seems there just arent any. There is the Creatvie Cloud and that's it. Am I correct? Do I need to get involved with a paid subscription? In fact it doesnt seem to be that expensive at about 10$ US a month anyway. And for that you've got pretty much the whole shabang thrown in.

Cheers - Ed

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Scottm
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by Scottm » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:06 am

I am fortunate enough to have a camera that can store both RAW and JPEG, and because of this, I do capture both formats on my memory cards. This gives me the opportunity to undertake more detailed post-processing on the RAW files than I could undertake on any JPEG files for any poorly captured images. By way of example, I have included a few images to illustrate the differences I have experienced.

Lightroom is a software package in the ADOBE range of software, initially developed primarily as a library catalog system, with a few useful image editing tools available. The majority of my images that I use from my camera are the JPEG directly from the camera card, and when I am required to alter any brightness or contrast on these images, I simply use a Microsoft office program. These are adequate for most uses, but every now and then, I do try and recover a poorly shot image from the RAW files, and for this purpose, I use Lightroom.

To set the scene, this image was taken on my way back to camp late in the afternoon. Something in the tree caught my eye. This is a 70mm JPEG image, straight out of the camera and re-sized for this forum:
Image

This image, also a JPEG straight from the camera, is zoomed to 220mm, and re-sized for this forum (not cropped) and no post-processing undertaken:
Image

Using the JPEG zoomed image, I attempted to recover what I could using Microsoft Office 2010 image editor. I gave myself 3 minutes and could probably have done better with a different software package. This is a crop from the original image above, but the edit was undertaken on the JPEG file.
Image

Finally, using the RAW file in Lightroom and giving myself 3 minutes, this crop is what I could achieve within the time-frame allotted.
Image

You are welcome to critique my editing skills, which certainly require much improvement, but the prime point is that you CAN do so much more with RAW files than you can with JPEG files, should you ever have the need to do so. The caveat is that you have to capture your images in RAW in the first place in order to have that opportunity. An opportunity missed is an opportunity lost.

The argument owing to big files and expensive storage has essentially been lost. Both computer storage and memory card storage prices has dropped so dramatically as to be almost insignificant compared to other costs. In addition, batch processing of photographic files may take some time, but most of it can be done automatically, while you are enjoying a quiet beer, going over the memories of your last trip. Thereafter, only specific photographs where you want to undertake specific additional post-processing, can be undertaken at your leisure.
"Take nothing but memories, leave nothing but footprints"

Photographs help to crystallize memories, but cannot be seen to be a replacement of them!

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Aardvark
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Re: RAW or JPEG and why?

Unread post by Aardvark » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:22 am

My dad is a firm believer in the JPEG movement, but i became a rebel and started to use this RAW format.

UNFORTUNATELY i havnt been to the Kruger in over a year :shock: so at this stage i dont have a good comparison.
The RAW format takes up a lot more space, but memory cards are getting cheaper and cheaper so you can afford to have 4 or 5 different memory cards, and im one of those who takes a laptop to the Kruger to move the photos from my memory card to an external.

Some great apps i found that can play RAW format thats free is:
* Google Picasa - https://picasa.google.com/
* Paint.NET with some plugin - unfortunately im not sure where i downloaded it from, i just backed it up to a driver for future installations. Although Paint.NET is somewhat limited, it has a lot more features than normal Paint.

Im pretty happy with RAW, but have no issues switching to JPEG to save space.
2016 Kruger National Park:
12-14 March 2016: Satara
14-16 March 2016: Lower Sabie
17 March 2016: Berg-en-Dal


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