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Fuel Advice needed

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o-dog
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Re: Petrol...the necessary evil

Unread post by o-dog » Tue May 31, 2011 11:04 pm

In 2009 Drove a golf chico 1.4L and got amazing consumption out of it...800km per tank of 50 litres.
ie 16km/1litre
In June 2010 drove pajero 3.5litre and got about 12-13km/litre.

As Bush Baptist does, we do many km in the park especially if you have far off destinations you want to see. So in summer often 250-300 km/day.
But my cousins like to take it more easy and do 150km day. I'd take an average of the two and also budget on 200km day.

So would say R150-R200 depending on if you want to drive big areas or not :thumbs_up:
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Re: Petrol...the necessary evil

Unread post by Meandering Mouse » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:23 am

I drive a Honda CR-V and spend pretty much most of the day on the road. That includes lots of stopping at dams and scenic spots. I top up about every third day and it costs about R400. I tend to do a lot of gravel which might also add on a bit of extra usage.

A word of warning, always carry cash for petrol. I have been caught in predicaments when the electricity has failed and my card could not be used. Never go too low on fuel. Again, I have been in situations where a camp has run out of petrol in busy seasons and I have had to get to garages outside the Park. I have also seen many reports of nail biting moments by people caught off guard.
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Dupacc
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Re: Fuel Advice needed

Unread post by Dupacc » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:33 am

ecojunkie wrote:Low sulphur diesel is now available throughout KNP! .


:clap: :clap: For me this is good news! Many manufacturers nowadays specify 50 ppm Diesel as the only fuel to be used in their newer vehicles.
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Dupacc
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Re: Re:

Unread post by Dupacc » Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:18 pm

ockiev wrote:I drive a Chev Aveo with a 50L tank, City trafic avg 450Km, open road 500 - 550Km and in kruger 700 -750Km. :naughty:



I find this very interesting: my car (Audi A6 3.0 TDi) consumes just about the the same quanitities of fuel in Kruger as in city traffic - about 10l/100km (10km/liter), while on the open road it goes as low as 6l/100km (16.4km/liter). It is thus easily 40% heavier on fuel in Kruger than on the open road.

I guess it has to do with a heavy vehicle stopping and pulling away? And does it mean that a vehicle with a smaller engine or less torque finds it more difficult to cruise on the open road? :hmz: :hmz:

It will be interesting to calculate the actual costs in terms of fuel used by the two vehicles mentioned: with 55 liters I travel the 450 km to KNP from home and have enough left to do another 250-300 km in Kruger. How much will the Aveo use to travel 450 to KNP and then do a day's travel in the park? :roll: :roll: :hmz: :hmz:
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ndloti
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Re: Fuel Advice needed

Unread post by ndloti » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:32 pm

Seems driving habits & patterns decide consumption .
It may be that in the above mentioned case in the KNP the Aveo drives at a more constant speed than the Audi if more stop starting is done consumption may be far higher .
I experience the same pattern as Dupacc, though if I drive a diesel at a constant speed (such as in the Kgalagadi when commuting between the camps & entrance gate at a speed that irons out corrugations) the consumption is very low .
I think turbodiesel engines are generally not as economical as petrol engines in the stop / go mode as the turbo requires some time to spool up and become effective the management system injects extra diesel to overcome this - thus the puff of smoke often seen om pulling away .
The Audi turbodiesel engine is generally far more economical on the open road at cruising speeds than a the Aveo with petrol engine would be.
KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.

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Re: Clean Diesel in Kruger Park

Unread post by Son godin » Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:09 pm

ecojunkie wrote:Yes - they have substituted the supply, and all is now 50ppm diesel.


Ecojunkie is it not petrol you refer to. If they only keep 50 ppm S diesel it means you must pay for the more expensive diesel and do not have the option for the cheaper diesel.

Total South Africa launches Ultra Low Sulphur Petrol (50ppm ULP95)
September, 20 2011 – Total South Africa has launched ultra low sulphur petrol at selected service
stations in Pretoria, KZN, NW Province, Limpopo and Mpumalanga.
The product contains less sulphur (50ppm versus 500ppm). The ultra low sulphur has the Total
Evolution additive, which gives it better performance and efficiency and is better for the environment.
Total South Africa will be offering Total Evolution 50ppm 95 low sulphur petrol at no extra cost
to the motorists. As this is a cleaner product with lower sulphur content, it will enable unleaded
drivers to make a positive contribution to improving the air quality.
Vehicles running on regular unleaded 95 can easily switch to Total Evolution 50ppm 95 low sulphur
petrol without any adjustment or effect on their vehicle’s performance. All cars manufactured after
1986 are compatible with Total Evolution Unleaded.
“As a petroleum company we are continuously being innovative with our product offerings to
ensure we are ever mindful of the environment and give our customers products that will enable
their vehicles to perform better ” said Total South Africa’s Marketing Manager, Reina Cullinan.
Find your nearest Total Service station selling Ultra Low Sulphur petrol and diesel under our News
and on our facebook page www.facebook.com/totalsouthafrica.
Next trip: Kgalagadi in July 2017

Last trip: Tsitsikamma NP, Addo Elephant NP and Mountain Zebra NP

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Goggo EJ
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Re: Clean Diesel in Kruger Park

Unread post by Goggo EJ » Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:15 am

The pumps themselves are marked, and I checked with attendants. It is diesel - don't know about the petrol side of things as I do not use it!
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Re: Clean Diesel in Kruger Park

Unread post by Goggo EJ » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:38 am

Just to confirm..... I was at BnD last night, and the advertising banner at the garage clearly states 50 Diesel!
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Re: Clean Diesel in Kruger Park

Unread post by DrPhil » Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:46 am

This is great news for everyone with a new commonrail diesel engine. But for everyone else including the SANParks trucks and night drive open top vehicles it is terrible. That is if only 50 ppm is available.

Not only is it much more expensive, but it can damage the older engines and trucks. I don't even want to think what Total is asking for a liter as they all ready ripped off all diesel vehicle drivers in the past by asking way more than just outside the park.

The older engines require the sulphur in the diesel to help lubricate the engine and turbo. This is exactly the opposite with the new engines as the tolerances are much tighter on the new engines and the sulphur will damage the engine.

I would suggest that if you drive one of the older diesel engines you should add some 2stroke oil to the 50ppm diesel if you are forced to fill up with it. 200ml oil to every 100Liters. I do it with 500ppm aswell and it is clear that the engine runs much smoother and the fuel consumption is better with the oil added. Just dont do it with the new engines as the 2stroke will increase the sulphur content to much more than 500ppm.

I think this is a good excuse to get a long range tank :tongue:

Just my 2c....
Not in Kruger.... Busy planning the next trip...

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Bush Baptist
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Re: Clean Diesel in Kruger Park

Unread post by Bush Baptist » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:50 pm

Pardon my ignorance but can the 50 & 500 be used interchangeably?

After all what is 450 parts per million?
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DrPhil
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Re: Clean Diesel in Kruger Park

Unread post by DrPhil » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:34 am

BB no problem in asking questions :thumbs_up:

The 50 ppm and 500ppm can be interchanged. But only on the older engines. They can handle both but prefer the dirtier 500ppm diesel. The more luxurious new diesels, merc and bmw have sensors that will stop the engine when 500ppm is added to the system. Even the VW amarok will not be under warranty from VW as soon as 500ppm is added to the system. That is the first thing they test for when there is a problem. :wall: :wall:

The new ford ranger 3.2 V6 TD is the only new engine that is allowed to fill up with 500 ppm. :thumbs_up:

The 50 ppm and 500 ppm is the sulphur content in the diesel.

What is interesting is that fuel companies are allowed to mix intermix (the volume of fuel that is not diesel or petrol but a mixture of different fuels) with 500 ppm and even LRP. Of course the amount they are allowed to mix is strictly governed but it is allowed. They are however not allowed to mix anything into 50 ppm as the sulphur content will then become to high.

ps. Intermix is formed because the same pipeline is used to pump all types of fuel from the coast to the rest of the country. It is only separated by a rubber ball in the pipeline. So some mixing of products will occur.

pps. Sasol actually produces 10 ppm diesel. The cleanest diesel in the world but then adds some additives to get it to 50 ppm.
Not in Kruger.... Busy planning the next trip...

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Goggo EJ
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Re: Clean Diesel in Kruger Park

Unread post by Goggo EJ » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:14 am

I checked at BnD last night - ordinary 500ppm diesel is no longer available in the park, all supplies changed to 50ppm!
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DrPhil
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Re: Clean Diesel in Kruger Park

Unread post by DrPhil » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:25 am

ecojunkie, I do think it was a wise choice made by SANParks even though I dont like it.

The older engines can handle it even if they prefer 500ppm, the new engines can't handle 500ppm and more importantly they are not allowed to use 500ppm.

Most of the people visiting the park drive newer diesels and for me to do one or 2 tanks on the cleaner diesel is much better than anyone in a new engine loosing his warranty on a R800 000 car because he was forced to fill up even if just to make it to the closest available 50 ppm pump.

So WELL DONE to SANParks for changing. :clap: Or was it Total???
Not in Kruger.... Busy planning the next trip...

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Jaco V
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Re: Clean Diesel in Kruger Park

Unread post by Jaco V » Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:32 pm

I think the swap from 500ppm to 50ppm is more a logistical matter than a money making move.

Fact is new technology diesel vehicles require 50ppm diesel. I would say that the largest number of vehicles refilling with diesel in KNP are newer vehicles (rentals and private owned). Older vehicles are also more tolerant of clean diesel than the newer ones of 500ppm diesel.

Now, if you had to supply KNP service stations of fuel, consider the following. You need to supply petrol (95 octane and potentially LRP) as well as diesel (50ppm and 500ppm). That means you need to supply 4 different forms of fuel. Much easier to just deliver one sort of petrol and diesel is it not? It will save you a lot on delivery costs. Add to that the fact that 50ppm has a lower sulphur content that makes it cleaner and more "green". What better way to market your fuel in a conservation area?

Sulphur was used to lubricate the diesel pumps of older vehicles. It prevented excessive wear on the pump. The sulphur would leach into the engine oil and break down the chemical bonds of the oil, shortening the oil's useful life span. Thus you need to do an oil service more often. Not something the average motorist finds appealing. Add to that that sulphur is poisoness. So remove the sulphur. New engines are developed for low sulphur diesel, giving service intervals similar to petrol engines. However this means older engines now have a wear issue. So add 200ml of 2 stroke oil to a tank as DrPhil suggested. The diesel pump is happy again.

DrPhil wrote: Even the VW amarok will not be under warranty from VW as soon as 500ppm is added to the system. That is the first thing they test for when there is a problem. :wall: :wall:

Just a correction :wink: . The Amarok will gladly run on 500ppm diesel and VW will support the warranty. My Amarok's owners manual and service guide only states that the service interval needs to be increased in countries where high sulphur diesel is used. SA is one of those.
I am aware of dealerships that run their demo Amarok vehicles on 500ppm diesel. Now that would cause serious issues should you do that and then sell of the car to an unsuspecting buyer would it not?
I prefer to run my Amarok on 50ppm diesel, but it is good to know I can use 500ppm if that is all that is available.
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Elsa
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Re: Fuel Advice needed

Unread post by Elsa » Tue May 05, 2015 2:20 pm

The garages do take credit card payments for fuel, but do remember that the lines can and do go down occasionally so its always best to carry some cash on you for those times.


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