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Identification Help - LBJs

Identify and index birds in Southern Africa
Ladybirder
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by Ladybirder » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:05 am

Could be a Long-billed Pipit due to the pink base of the bill?

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wildtuinman
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by wildtuinman » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:12 am

Karin's bird looks more larkish to me.
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Albert
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by Albert » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:29 am

This is interesting (and I suspect a good learning experience for a neophyte such as myself):

I also thought Long-billed Pipit (but I'm not confident enough to assert the ID). I thought Pipit because I see only 1 row of scapulars (but then I might be looking at the wrong feathers), and three tertials (wrong feathers comment also applies). The bird certainly has many similar markings on the head to the Long-billed Pipit that I saw in the Karoo National Park earlier this year.
Searching for a Cape Eagle Owl....

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arks
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by arks » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:15 pm

Albert wrote:Non-breeding/female Southern Red Bishop? Buff/yellowish eyebrow. streaking underneath and quite a short tail. But then again, in January I would expect the male to be in breeding plumage? So female then?

My 2 cents....

Thanks for the suggestion, Albert, but there were no red bishops -- at least in breeding plummage -- around at all, which is why I was thinking of alternatives ... But then again .... :hmz:

Anyone else have any thoughts on this one?
arks wrote:I'm struggling with this one :wall: possibly a female yellowfronted canary or even a female (or nonbreeding) yellow bishop? But both of those should have a yellow rump and I can't see the rump on this bird :roll: Am I missing something obvious?

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wildtuinman
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by wildtuinman » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:27 am

:lol: :lol: this is all very confusing and exceptionally frustrating at the same time as I cannot see most of the photos being posted and I am unable to log on to the forum.

My Lark comment was in reply to Karin's bird 2 pages ago.

Anyhoo.

Karin's Bronkhorstspruit bird is certainly a pipit. Which one is a tough question and it would take a brave man to distinguish between Long-billed and African especially when the retrice on the tail seems more white(African) than buff(Long-billed). :wall:
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Karin Mitton
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by Karin Mitton » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:43 am

wildtuinman wrote:Karin's Bronkhorstspruit bird is certainly a pipit. Which one is a tough question and it would take a brave man to distinguish between Long-billed and African especially when the retrice on the tail seems more white(African) than buff(Long-billed). :wall:


Thank you - I will study both in a bit more detail and see if I can get closer to a positive ID. Long-billed would be a lifer, but I'd rather leave it as unidentified than make the wrong ID (but it would be a shame to leave such a pretty bird without an ID!).

I am also getting a new bird book soon :dance: :dance: :dance: maybe I'll find the answer there!

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rcyza
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by rcyza » Sun Sep 13, 2015 10:40 am

Hi Everyone

While working through a backlog of photos, we came across these shots of a pipit (I hope). They were taken at the end of March, near Satara (KNP).

Image Click for larger

Image Click for larger

This bird appears to possibly have white outer tail feathers (although they do look slightly buff towards the base) and a yellow bill base. However it does not have very distinct markings on its mantle, face, nor its breast. Is this enough to rule out the African Pipit and point towards Long-billed Pipit? Roberts says Long-billed should have a pinkish lower mandible, but Newman says it should be yellow. :hmz:

Whilst we did not take note of any tail flicking (or lack thereof) in the field, we have photos taken at least once per second over around 20 seconds, and none of them show any tail flicking above the horizontal, which possibly rules out Buffy Pipit (along with the yellow bill base). This leaves us with the possibility that it is a Plain-backed Pipit, but its hind claws are not what I would describe as very long.

All in all, we are stuck! Any assistance with this ID would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ryan

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DotDan
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by DotDan » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:18 am

These pipits are notoriously difficult to ID that is for sure.

I have seen quite a lot of Buffy around Satara and saw quite a few there in Feb. That being said, this particular pipit and the way you describe it (not real tail flicking, very distinct yellow lower mandible) really does point to Plain Backed Pipit for me.

Here is a Buffy pipit that I saw around Satara in Feb, just to give you an idea of stance and mandible color for a better comparison.

Image

In my experience, Buffy's really tend to stand up straight where as Plain Backed never really gets up past that 45 degree angle when standing up. (Please note, this is just my personal observations)

Lets hear what the other people think as well :thumbs_up:

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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by Ladybirder » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:13 am

I would also go for Plain-backed Pipit

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arks
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by arks » Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:18 am

A few more "mystery birdies" that I need some ID help with, all seen at MZNP in mid-July 2015.

1. Is this one a longbilled pipit (or possibly a longtailed pipit)?
Image

Image

2. Is this one possibly an African rock pipit?
Image

Image

3. Again, longbilled pipit or possibly longtailed pipit?
Image

Image
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by rcyza » Thu Sep 17, 2015 8:45 am

Thanks very much DotDan and LadyBirder for your inputs, especially for the comparison photo of the Buffy Pipit.

Any other contributions would be greatly appreciated!

Arks, I know it won't be a whole lot of help now, but when we saw an African Rock Pipit in MZNP it was behaving exactly as described in Newmans, sitting on a rock and calling. It really pays to know what behaviour and call to expect from each of the likely species you might encounter (not that we knew beforehand, the bird was very preoccupied with calling from his rock while some frantic paging happened in the car :) ).

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arks
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by arks » Tue Sep 22, 2015 4:05 am

Image
:yaya: Anybody??? :pray:

arks wrote:A few more "mystery birdies" that I need some ID help with, all seen at MZNP in mid-July 2015.

1. Is this one a longbilled pipit (or possibly a longtailed pipit)?
Image

Image

2. Is this one possibly an African rock pipit?
Image

Image

3. Again, longbilled pipit or possibly longtailed pipit?
Image

Image
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Johan van Rensburg
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by Johan van Rensburg » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:36 pm

So arks sent a PM for help... :lol: :shock: :redface:

Firstly let me scuttle the concept of “Long-tailed pipit” being a valid species. Although “discovered” and described in 1996 as a new species, recent research suggests it is the same species as Buffy...

The area where these birds were seen helps a bit to narrow down possibilities... African, buffy, A. Rock, long-billed and plain-backed pipits are your choices.

Starting with #3: I think you’ll agree that the outer tail feathers on this bird is white, diagnostic of (out of the selection!) African pipit. So, that one is out of the way!

Next, looking at #1: Mottled back, so we can scratch plain-backed and buffy. My overall impression is African pipit and the following features are in support: the strong facial mask, bold but less extensive than breast streaking long-billed, well defined malar stripes and a whiter belly than what one can expect to see on a long-billed pipit. Unfortunately the outer tail feathers cannot be seen well enough to make a call on colour.

#2 is tough…we have had the conversation about shots through windows (this is what it looks like to me with the detail all washed-out). The bird is wet to boot! :lol:

Anyhow, the shape and general impression is not that of African rock pipit. In jest I would say that if it is not on a rock, it isn’t a rock pipit!

Image

Can we park this one for a bit longer?
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arks
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by arks » Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:58 pm

Thanks SO much for your help with these, Johan. So more of "the usual" it is with these (I often assume that, but sometimes become curious, wondering if just maybe they might not be). As for #2, it will have to remain a mystery. The pix were not shot thru a window, but it was indeed a very wet day! Thanks again for your help, as always, much appreciated! :gflower: :gflower:

Johan van Rensburg wrote:So arks sent a PM for help... :lol: :shock: :redface:

Firstly let me scuttle the concept of “Long-tailed pipit” being a valid species. Although “discovered” and described in 1996 as a new species, recent research suggests it is the same species as Buffy...

The area where these birds were seen helps a bit to narrow down possibilities... African, buffy, A. Rock, long-billed and plain-backed pipits are your choices.

Starting with #3: I think you’ll agree that the outer tail feathers on this bird is white, diagnostic of (out of the selection!) African pipit. So, that one is out of the way!

Next, looking at #1: Mottled back, so we can scratch plain-backed and buffy. My overall impression is African pipit and the following features are in support: the strong facial mask, bold but less extensive than breast streaking long-billed, well defined malar stripes and a whiter belly than what one can expect to see on a long-billed pipit. Unfortunately the outer tail feathers cannot be seen well enough to make a call on colour.

#2 is tough…we have had the conversation about shots through windows (this is what it looks like to me with the detail all washed-out). The bird is wet to boot! :lol:

Anyhow, the shape and general impression is not that of African rock pipit. In jest I would say that if it is not on a rock, it isn’t a rock pipit!

Image

Can we park this one for a bit longer?
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6-19 April KNP: Croc Bridge, Olifants, Shingwedzi, Pafuri Border
20-24 April Mapungubwe: Leokwe
25 April-28 May Darling
29 May-19 June Cape Town

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salamanda
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Re: Identification Help - LBJs

Unread post by salamanda » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:32 am

Is this bird a Longclaw? If it is, there is indication of an orange(?) [or even rosy :wink: ] throat but no colouring across the breast. can someone please help with the ID? it was seen in iMfolozi, KZN, this month.

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