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Identification Help - Raptors

Identify and index birds in Southern Africa
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johanclassen
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by johanclassen » Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:42 pm

Thanks Dirk, I think you have nailed it. Thats why I felt I fell off the bus. I went and had another look and then found one of Dave Kilbey's images taken in Spain. This matches mine. I only have three images of this bird in flight, mostly the same.. I accept Lesser Kestrel. Appreciate.

wildtuinman wrote:wildtuinman

Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors Reply with quote
johanclassen wrote:
Could this be a young Peregrine? also near Rondevlei Ebb and Flow..Thanks.

Attachment:
Swerfvalk Juv.jpg



I think I just fell off the Bus. :o


This bird looks less vicious than a Peregrine, Johan. With that black sub-terminal band on the tail and rather plan underwing coverts I would go with one of the Kestrels. Lesser Kestrel perhaps? Do you have more photos of the bird?

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by jaytea » Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:13 pm

wildtuinman wrote:
jaytea wrote:The same for this one.... Wahlbergs also?
Image


Hi Jaytea, I find the white markings on the upperparts of the tail and left wing of this bird interesting. Not sure if it reflecting light or not. Do you have any other photos of this bird?


I think it is reflection Wtm - it was midday when I took this photo - I'll look and see if I have other photos!
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Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by Christy » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:38 pm

If this post is inappropriate here, please do remove.
This bird was seen on Africam at Naledi, Balule on 16th April - Steppe Eagle, juvenile? Tawny?

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by Johan van Rensburg » Wed May 13, 2015 4:37 pm

johanclassen wrote:Tnx Albert for your input. Your second image , to me, is a prime example of a Steppe. As far as my problem goes, I will not enter my image as a Forest Buzzard before I am totally convinced. The one thing that do worry me is that according to most of the Guidebooks, they state that the Steppe is mostly quite, where the one I saw was calling all the time.

I would like to add an excerpt from Southern African Birdfinder to add to the confusion :? " Forest Buzzard occurs in forests and plantations throughout the Garden Route, and regularly perches on roadside telephone poles along the N2 from Wilderness through to Knysna and Natures Valley. In summer, it is joined by Steppe Buzzard, posing an identification challenge."
So there we go???? :wink:


Johann, I will not make too much of my habitat comment. It was a reference to my personal experience, I was not setting a habitat rule to ID forest buzzards...

However, at the time of writing my post I was sure your bird is NOT a forest buzzard, but the call of Steppe was a bit bothersome... There were certain features that didn't sit well. So I asked for help from one of the great aficionados of Southern African birds regarding the ID. Niall Perrins put me on another tack altogether!

Immature goshawk! Niall suggests that size is determinable by judging it against the ceramic wire carriers that is 12cm tall... It is now obviously a SMALL bird! That would also explain the incessant calling, like a parent must have been nearby and the youngster reminded the mom/dad that it needed feeding!?

Now the new challenge is to ID THE goshawk!

Goshawks occurring in that area: PCG = 55cm, way too big; African = 38cm, getting close, but the patterns do not fit! There is an outside chance of a Gabar goshawk being resident (32cm, spot on! and so are the marking too...) Maybe this youngster was screaming in panic because it was lost! Gabar is Niall's gut feel, and I can tell you his gut is usually spot on!

I have had a little discussion with WTM, and he feels strong that it is PCG. I'll pass this one on to a few other boytjies for their input on a fascinating raptor!
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by wildtuinman » Wed May 13, 2015 4:40 pm

Just to add a little bit more ammo to my argument.

I have never seen a Gabar Goshawk and African Goshawk perch on a pole like this before.
Where as Steppe Buzzard and Southern Pale Chanting Goshawks are reknowned for doing so. And this is certainly not a buzzard.

I also see the SABAP guys frequently record Southern Pale Chanting Goshawk in that area.
http://sabap2.adu.org.za/species_info.php?spp=165

I'll stick with Southern Pale Chanting Goshawk.
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by wildtuinman » Wed May 13, 2015 4:45 pm

Just in case my original post went unnoticed.

wildtuinman wrote:Very interesting discussion! :-)

All the birds are Steppe Buzzards except Albert's first which I agree with JVR is a Jackal Buzzard and then also of course JohanC's mystery bird.

Unfortunately it is not a Forest Buzzard, which is actually very common along the Garden route, but often overlooked. It is a very common bird in a place like Groot Brak-river. Here are some tips in getting it.

http://www.laine-dirk.co.za/trips/Birdi ... 0Brak.html

Whatever it is, it is a young bird and it looks more like a Goshawk than a Buzzard.

It is not easy to judge the size, even against those ceramic isolators... Do you have any other photos of it, Johan?

I have never seen Gabar along the Garden route during all my birding visits there and kind of doubt that they will occur there at all. Even the guides who SABAP down there have never recorded it in that area. http://sabap2.adu.org.za/species_info.php?spp=162

Could it be an African Goshawk? I have never seen one with that plumage before....

It looks suspiciously like a Southern Pale Chanting Goshawk to me, which is also not common at all along the Garden route, even though I have seen it en-route to Oudtshoorn from Mosselbay.

Interesting.
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by Johan van Rensburg » Wed May 13, 2015 6:30 pm

Just to bring the bird/ceramic isolater ratio into play again: here is a shot of a PCG and those ceramics...

Image

You have to use a bit of geometric licence, but to me it looks as if 5 ceramics go into one raptor. With Johann's bird, its more like 3 ceramics into one bird...

But then, it is absolutely a subjective call... :hmz:

The tarsus of a PCG (97 - 118) = 1 ceramic.

The tarsus of a Gabar (41 - 58) = 1/2 a ceramic.
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by wildtuinman » Wed May 13, 2015 6:57 pm

What it is worth, one of my go-to raptor expert friends also vote for Southern Pale Chanting Goshawk.
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by Trevor Hardaker » Wed May 13, 2015 7:42 pm

Johan emailed me and asked me to have a look at this discussion and give my input, so here I am... :hmz:

My comments are specific to the original bird posted. If one looks carefully at the photo, you can see that the tail extends beyond the folded wings which immediately eliminates the possibility of any of the Buzzards which all have wings and tail typically the same length when perched.

Having a long tailed bird then pushes us to the Goshawks, Sparrowhawks, etc. On plumage alone, we can eliminate most of the likely candidates in the area like African Goshawk and Black and Rufous-chested Sparrowhawks. So, we are really left with Gabar and Pale Chanting Goshawks to consider.

The underpart plumage markings are not really what one would expect on a Gabar of this age, but the shape of the bird is more telling. Gabar is a smallish, slim bird with a very long tail (compared to Chanting Goshawks). This bird's tail is not all that long, so certainly is more in line with a Chanter than a Gabar. And, lastly, although there seem to be palish tips to the secondaries, there is not a distinct white edge to them as is diagnostic in Gabar, so it is therefore totally ruled out.

As some people have already suggested, this is a young Pale Chanting Goshawk, a reasonably good record for the area.

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by Johan van Rensburg » Thu May 14, 2015 5:50 am

As always, your observations are objective and logical, Trevor. And not only me, but all the readers of this forum and these ID threads always appreciate you taking valuable time to give a well-justified opinion with descriptors of the diagnostics from which we can always learn.

Thanks a ton!
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by Bush Baptist » Thu May 14, 2015 9:30 am

Agreed :thumbs_up:

Thanks Trevor.
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by salamanda » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:09 am

Could someone check for me - is this an African Hawk Eagle? Seen at the end of May near Pretoriuskop.


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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by Tdgraves » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:30 am

Help please, this large raptor was seen in Kgalagadi in Jan 2015. Really struggling to decide what it is...

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by hilda » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:12 pm

@ Salamanda: I'm no expert as you know, I don't know where they all are, but I would agree that it is an African Hawk Eagle. I think all the experts were put off by the fact that the links were broken for so long. :(

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread post by xelas » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:44 pm

Hi to all!

I have been advised to post my bird here for identification. So far it is a buzzard ...

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Thanks, Alex


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