Skip to content

SANParks.org Forums

View unanswered posts | View active topics






Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
 [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Antivenin
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:48 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Afganistan
Can anyone plz tell me if there are any anti venom available for scorpions and snakes in Kgalagadi or do you have to take you’re own with

Thanx

_________________
Live on the WILD side of life

Canon 7D Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM-Canon 100-400 IS USM F4.5-Canon 28 - 135 is -Sigma 24mm f1.8 MACRO-Canon EF 50mm f1.4 USM-Canon EFS 17-85mm f/4-5.6 Image Stabilized USM-Canon EF 2X II Extender-Canon EF 1.4 Extender


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 7:03 pm 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:29 pm
Posts: 872
Location: Durban, Kwa Zulu Natal, SA
We asked this selfsame question on our recent trip to KTP and the answer was that the patient would be stabilised in the Park and once safe to do so they would be transported to Twee Rivieren (by road). The Office at TR would in turn have notified Upington of the situation who would then deal with it accordingly. I am not a fundi on anti-venom nor do I know how the time frame given the above information would affect the patient's chances but for the record this is what we were told!

_________________
NO BAIL - JAIL AND NO TRADE IN RHINO HORN EVER!
NO TO BUILDING OF HOTELS IN THE KRUGER NATIONAL PARK
26.09.14 - 03.10.14 Burchells Bush Lodge
03.10.14 - 10.10.14 Ngwenya Lodge
The addiction is fed once again


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 11:40 pm 
Offline
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:28 am
Posts: 14219
Location: Pretoria, RSA
Administering anti-venom is very dangerous unless you know 1. exactly what you are doing, 2. that the anti-venom is the exact type needed for the specific type of snake and 3. that it has been kept under ideal circumstance.

In other words ... it is not at all advised to carry your own! It is not even advised for National Park authorities to keep a supply! It can be positively dangerous!

There are very few snakes that are really dangerously poisonous. Those that are, very seldom bite a person. And when they do, they often do not inject venom (!) and you mostly have enough time to make it to a hospital if they do.

As for scorpions: Even though their sting might burn like hell :twisted: ... even fewer of them are really dangerous to a human.

So ... go and enjoy the Kgalagadi!
:wink:

_________________
Imberbe = Combretum imberbe = Leadwood = Hardekool = The spirit of the Wildernis!

Want to know more about the SANParks Honorary Rangers? Visit www.sanparkshr.org


One positive deed is worth more than a thousand critical words.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:48 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Afganistan
Thanx 4 da info , I am a qualified cca paramedic and I did a course in anti venom administering. I will be taking my own with seeing that the nearest place is Upington .Life is 2 precious to take chances .Only draw back is that anti venom is very expensive.

_________________
Live on the WILD side of life

Canon 7D Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM-Canon 100-400 IS USM F4.5-Canon 28 - 135 is -Sigma 24mm f1.8 MACRO-Canon EF 50mm f1.4 USM-Canon EFS 17-85mm f/4-5.6 Image Stabilized USM-Canon EF 2X II Extender-Canon EF 1.4 Extender


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:59 pm 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:44 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Cape Town
dear kalaharikind

just some "useless info" on scorpion bite that i thought you might find interesting.

south africa actually has a low incidence of scorpionism. unlike south west USA, mexico, india and north africa. there are worldwide roughly 100 000 cases of scorpionism per year resulting in 800 deaths. in south africa 95% of all cases of scorpionism result only in a mild local inflammatory reaction and pain lasting 15 min - 4 hours and no systemic effects. there are roughly 4 deaths per year. (nothing in comparison with cars, guns etc.)

the medically important scorpions belong to the family "buthidae". they are characterised by their thin pincers and broad tails. the other families "scorpionidae" are relatively harmless and are characterised by their large pincers and slender tails.

as far as the treatment of scorpion bites go, less that 5% of bites require medical treatment. scorpion first aid treatment entail cold compress, simple analgesics (paracetamol), cleaning of the wound. watch out for systemic symptoms.

antiserum is only recommend in patients with severe systemic symptoms (sweating, drooling, difficult swallowing, unable to stand, seizures, difficult breathing etc.) it should only be used by persons trained in the use of it as well as the management of allergic reactions. (must have adrenaline, steroids available)

i am of the opinion that it is unnecessary to carry scorpion antiserum with you since the incidence of "deadly bites" are low in SA. you can potentially do more harm than good. (especially in the wrong hands). it is a lot cheaper and safer to avoid bites - wear shoes, exercises caution when lifting rocks, don't sleep directly on the ground when camping, learn to distinguish between venomous and non-venomous scorpions.

:D :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:09 pm 
Offline
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Distinguished Virtual Ranger

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:57 pm
Posts: 5031
I wonder how high the incidence of "luisbytes" is. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 10:15 pm 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger

Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:44 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Cape Town
:hmz: it all depends...

:D :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2006 11:08 pm 
Offline
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:28 am
Posts: 14219
Location: Pretoria, RSA
Kalaharikind wrote:
Thanx 4 da info , I am a qualified cca paramedic and I did a course in anti venom administering. I will be taking my own with seeing that the nearest place is Upington .Life is 2 precious to take chances .Only draw back is that anti venom is very expensive.


Good for you! I wish I had that training! :)

But then ... did you also do a course in snake identification? :twisted:

_________________
Imberbe = Combretum imberbe = Leadwood = Hardekool = The spirit of the Wildernis!

Want to know more about the SANParks Honorary Rangers? Visit www.sanparkshr.org


One positive deed is worth more than a thousand critical words.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:37 am 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 217
Location: A little village in Gaul
Imberbe wrote:
Administering anti-venom is very dangerous unless you know ... 2. that the anti-venom is the exact type needed for the specific type of snake... :wink:

With regards to anti-venom (on a lighter note) - I had an uncle who was very fond of the outdoors and he used to go on long walks on the farm where I come from. Although we sometimes see other kinds of snakes as well, normally the only kinds of snakes we encounter on the farm are pufadders.

One day, my uncle was on one of these walks again, accompanied by one of the farm workers, when he felt the sharp sting of what can only be a pufadder's bite on his ankle. Looking down, my uncle could see the distinct two small holes left by the pufadder's teeth. Luckily, they were not far from the farmhouse when the pufadder struck. My uncle struggled to the farmhouse, assisted by the farmworker, and thereafter raced to the nearest town, which is only about 20km's from the farm.

On his arrival at the local doctor, my uncle immediately informed the doctor of the pufadder bite and the doctor, fully aware of my uncle's knowledge of wild life, took his word for it and immediately administered a dose of the appropriate anti-venom. After that, my uncle was admitted to the hospital where the medical personel started checking his vital signs. After all the action and with everybody settled down, the doctor now decided to take a closer look at the bitemark ... and low and behold - upon closer inspection the doctor noticed the two thorns still neatly lodged deep into my uncle's flesh. The pufadder's bitemark was all the time just a well placed "bite" by a two-headed thorn.

You would not believe me if you were not at the local hospital on that specific day, but you should have seen the chaos that broke loose after that - every single doctor and nurse raced out to a nearby field now in search of a pufadder to bite my uncle, obviously to counter the anti-venom just administered to my uncle... :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:57 am 
Hi Kalaharikind

I believe the right person you should speak to is Pilane…I however haven’t seen him on the forum the past week or so….maybe you should send him a PM.

What I do know is that the experts are very cautious about the administration of anti-venom…the reasons given by Imberbe are some that needs serious consideration!
@Obelix LOL :lol: :shock:

Another reason is that up to 20% of people receiving anti-venom display serum sensitivity and thus you also need to have the proper drugs and know-how to deal with such an allergic reaction…this reaction can be more severe than the snakebite itself! :?


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 11:50 am 
Offline
Legendary Virtual Ranger
Legendary Virtual Ranger
User avatar
Award: Funniest/Best Forumite Name (2013)
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 12:38 pm
Posts: 9677
Location: In the shadow of Table Mountain
FAC Member (2012)
I know this sounds trite, but with a little vigilance and common sense, one can usually avoid being stung or bitten.

Do NOT park near to a snake. It is likely to find the shade your car is providing, very appealing, and might head for it. Once under your car, the chassis is the next cool place and you now have a major problem. I have read on the forum of people to whom this happened, getting the snake out of the fabric in the ceiling!

_________________
Whatever (according to BB): "You are correct but I don't want to admit it".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 2:42 pm 
Offline
Honorary Virtual Ranger
Honorary Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 5:42 pm
Posts: 17943
Location: Red sand, why do I keep thinking of red sand?
Have you read Mashona's post Greamy?

_________________
Arriving currently: The photos from our trip! Overhere! :yaya:

Feel free to use any of these additional letters to correct the spelling of words found in the above post: a-e-t-n-d-i-o-s-m-l-u-y-h-c


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:44 pm 
Offline
Virtual Ranger
Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 8:11 pm
Posts: 447
Location: Somewhere in the Bush
I don't recomend antivenin for the following reasons.

1. 99% snakebites won't reqiure it
2. Expensive (About R1000 for a kit (2 amp) which is not enough in any case for say a serious mamba bite) Scorpion antivenin is even more expensive!!
3. Short rack life
4. Has to be kept cool
5. Best administered intraveneous
6. Can kill if you are allergic to it. (You'll need cortizone and adrenaline injections if the victim is allergic to it.)
7. How many people do you know that has been bitten by a snake?
8. 99,9% of the time you can reach help in due time.
9. Still very effective even adminstered after a long time!
10. 99,9% of snakebites occur when people handle them
11. Snakes don't hunt humans down or look for opertunities to bite them.

If you really want to carry it the the choice will be Polyvalent antivenin. Rather go for the good old pressure immobilizing bandage and head for a hospital where there is actually somebody that knows something about snakebite :roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Anti venom availability
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:15 pm 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:27 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Somewhere
Hi Kalaharikind

Since I have just recently joined the Forum, I would just like to say that I agree 100% with Pilane's and Imberbe's remarks.

Especially Imberbe's remark on snake identification. From my point of view (Pilane, you are well come to correct me if I am wrong), if you consider antivenom administration, you first need to identify the snake 100% correct - NO guessing. The only time when antivenom administration is considered, and the snake escaped and is not available for identification purposes is in a confirmed snakebite case where breathing difficulties (tachypnoea and dyspnoea) are present. And even if it is done, you still need to take into consideration that any venomous snake is capable of administering a "dry bite" - no venom was injected -eg. a friend of my sustained two black mamba bites - both dry bites!!!! It is better to treat A,B,C and stay away from antivenom anaphylaxis.

So just for interest sake, how many snakes and scorpions (Parabuthus spp) have you seen during your trip of 2006/7?

Did you visit KTP again this time during 2007/8?? If so any snakes and / scorpions??

Mfezi


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 8:48 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Afganistan
Hey Mfezi ,
Yes, we did visit and we saw a cobra (geelslang) and 2 Puf adders, as for the Scorpions, we saw a lot but not the very venomous tipe.
I met a guy at a croc farm in the South Coast and he hooked me up with a doctor that specialise in snakebites and the treatment there of.
One of the important things that I have learned from him is that the doctor treating you do not just cut anywhere to relief the pressure when it comes to hemo toxic snakebites.
The best is to contact the poison helpline and let them put you in touch with a snakebite specialist.
Thanx for you're comments

_________________
Live on the WILD side of life

Canon 7D Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM-Canon 100-400 IS USM F4.5-Canon 28 - 135 is -Sigma 24mm f1.8 MACRO-Canon EF 50mm f1.4 USM-Canon EFS 17-85mm f/4-5.6 Image Stabilized USM-Canon EF 2X II Extender-Canon EF 1.4 Extender


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

Webcams Highlights

Addo Nossob Orpen Satara
Addo Nossob Orpen Satara
Submitted by Waterbuck at 10:12:05 Submitted by CarolynR at 11:25:29 Submitted by VicRob at 10:53:08 Submitted by Stampajane at 08:27:30