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 Post subject: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:26 pm 
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A serious book about the lion as a predator of Mozambican refugees, who travelled through the park at night. This happened more than you think. It makes you think twice when you see lions.

The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger National Park
Robert R. Frump
ISBN-13: 978-1-59228-892-2
ISBN-10: 1-59228-892-8
$ 24,95

Oct 5: I made a mistake in his name. It must be Robert R. Frump and not Robert F. Frump.


Last edited by Impisi08 on Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:07 am 
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this book looks amazing.. I'm ordering two copies.. you can read the first 30 pages on google books. it also refers to several kruger park staff killed or attached by leopards.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:21 pm 
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Quote:
LeeLee wrote: Any other books by this author? Who is he?


"Robert R. Frump is a nationally recognized journalist who won several major awards while a journalist and investigative reporter at The Philadephia Inquirer."

You can find more information about Frump on the website man-eater.info/.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:05 pm 
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I read the book and thought it was quite poorly written. In it he makes the claim, that a blind eye was cast during the years of apartheid, over lion eating mozambique illegal immigrants and I don't believe that.

Whatever the faults under apartheid, I don't believe there would have been casual acceptance of lion eating people.

More likely, since the electric fence between South Africa and Mozambique was switched off, there has been a huge increase in poor souls trying to cross The Kruger to live and work in South Africa and thus coming into contact with lion.

Maybe this is the reason that the lions have become more confident in approaching people in The Kruger.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:18 pm 
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More likely, since the electric fence between South Africa and Mozambique was switched off, there has been a huge increase in poor souls trying to cross The Kruger to live and work in South Africa and thus coming into contact with lion.


Being there in the era you refer to, :roll: firstly I can tell you it is true, secondly I can tell you today is worse but due to infrastructure collapse in the post what you refer to era :whistle: nobody gives a S%#^.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Scipio wrote:
Quote:
More likely, since the electric fence between South Africa and Mozambique was switched off, there has been a huge increase in poor souls trying to cross The Kruger to live and work in South Africa and thus coming into contact with lion.


Being there in the era you refer to, :roll: firstly I can tell you it is true, secondly I can tell you today is worse but due to infrastructure collapse in the post what you refer to era :whistle: nobody gives a S%#^.


Well I lived there too. I lived in South Africa for ten years and my job was to go to The kruger.

I also don't believe South Africans would have turned a blind eye to people being killed. If for only selfish reasons, lion that had learned to feed on humans would seek out the camps.

Things were not perfect, but let us tell the truth otherwise we cannot deal with the problems of today.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:39 pm 
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The truth is that a lot of people(More than anyone can imagine) lost their lives to cross to SA from ZIM and Moz. Lions prides and lone ones killed a lot of the people. To saythe author is a bad writer and that other era you mentioned is not on. :naughty:


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:18 am 
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Scipio wrote:
The truth is that a lot of people(More than anyone can imagine) lost their lives to cross to SA from ZIM and Moz. Lions prides and lone ones killed a lot of the people. To saythe author is a bad writer and that other era you mentioned is not on. :naughty:



Well, we cannot jog backwards as they say, but as an English person living in SA at the time of the 70s, working in the travel business and then engaged to a man who spent his whole life travelling to the Kruger, I find it hard to believe that the people running the park would have turned a blind eye. After all, that is the reason there was an electric fence.

We all know lion that have eaten humans become very dangerous and would then be attracted to the camps.

Also, there is a double negative, to say South Africans did not care that humans were being killed in the Kruger and at the same time, many people risked their lives to go to go live in SA.

We don't really know the truth. I have read many books on Africa and I thought this particular book was sloppily written.

Just my opinion.

Nonetheless, it is very sad that poor souls are so desparate, that they take such risks to obtain work and food. Don't get me wrong, I don't treat the subject lightly.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:43 am 
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missings.a.! wrote:
In it he makes the claim, that a blind eye was cast during the years of apartheid, over lion eating mozambique illegal immigrants and I don't believe that.


What could the authorities have done to stop the lions eating the refugees ?
The border is impossible to watch in its entirety .
Certain of the refugees were caught a few times , some within 3 weeks of their last repatriation , so desperate were they to escape the civil war in Mozambique , and they travelled mostly at night to escape detection , and that is the time when lions become so bold and lose their instinctive fear of humans .

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KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:19 am 
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ndloti wrote:
missings.a.! wrote:
In it he makes the claim, that a blind eye was cast during the years of apartheid, over lion eating mozambique illegal immigrants and I don't believe that.


What could the authorities have done to stop the lions eating the refugees ?
The border is impossible to watch in its entirety .
Certain of the refugees were caught a few times , some within 3 weeks of their last repatriation , so desperate were they to escape the civil war in Mozambique , and they travelled mostly at night to escape detection , and that is the time when lions become so bold and lose their instinctive fear of humans .


It would be useful if someone who was actually involved in the patrols of the boarder were to give a view. In the book, Frump states it had been happening throughout the 20th Century, but before 1994 there were major army and air force border patrols preventing terrorists entering S.A. from Mozambique. Plus, as I have said, the fence was electrified and that was turned off in 1994.

I am not saying it did not ever happen, I just don't believe that South Africans at that time would have ignored it. Many writers try to portray South Africans then as the equivalent of the Nazis and the SS.

I went to Moz from the Kruger several times and stayed at the Polana and in all that time I never heard anything or any gossip about refugees being eaten. I think it is more likely that it began when the boarder patrols were wound down.

In the book, he claims that all lion in The Kruger have eaten human beings which would certainly explain their familiarity and they are becoming too close for comfort. I heard that the private lodges are getting worried. Any thoughts on that?


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:05 am 
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missings.a.! wrote:
ndloti wrote:
missings.a.! wrote:
In it he makes the claim, that a blind eye was cast during the years of apartheid, over lion eating mozambique illegal immigrants and I don't believe that.


What could the authorities have done to stop the lions eating the refugees ?
The border is impossible to watch in its entirety .
Certain of the refugees were caught a few times , some within 3 weeks of their last repatriation , so desperate were they to escape the civil war in Mozambique , and they travelled mostly at night to escape detection , and that is the time when lions become so bold and lose their instinctive fear of humans .


It would be useful if someone who was actually involved in the patrols of the boarder were to give a view. In the book, Frump states it had been happening throughout the 20th Century, but before 1994 there were major army and air force border patrols preventing terrorists entering S.A. from Mozambique. Plus, as I have said, the fence was electrified and that was turned off in 1994.

I am not saying it did not ever happen, I just don't believe that South Africans at that time would have ignored it. Many writers try to portray South Africans then as the equivalent of the Nazis and the SS.

I went to Moz from the Kruger several times and stayed at the Polana and in all that time I never heard anything or any gossip about refugees being eaten. I think it is more likely that it began when the boarder patrols were wound down.

In the book, he claims that all lion in The Kruger have eaten human beings which would certainly explain their familiarity and they are becoming too close for comfort. I heard that the private lodges are getting worried. Any thoughts on that?


Of course the South African government gave substantial support (of course with certain western powers turning a blind eye to it and in fact clandestinely supporting it) to the Renamo guerillas who were at war with Marxist Frelimo government . As a result of this Renamo controlled the area in Mozambique to the east of the KNP , so there was thus no longer a terrorist threat to South Africa from that area .
The RSA security forces were of course relatively thinly spread , taking into account the various other theatres of counter insurgency war it was involved in (in particular the Angolan border with SWA / Namibia ) , and the long border line with Mozambique would have in any been impossible to patrol effectively to prevent refugees crossing without a major army presence and infrastructure being established within the KNP - which would not have been allowed , thus the Renamo dominance of western Mozambique suited RSA perfectly , and was in fact part of the long term strategy , as was RSA'S support of Unita in Angola - but that is an entirely different story ...
As far as the Polana hotel & gossip within its comfortable confines concerning the problems of refugees crossing the border : The guerilla war was far removed from the city , except the odd visit by RSA special forces and Airforce visiting the city , the guerilla war was hardly on the minds of those able to afford the charms of that hotel ...

I certainly question the assertion that all Kruger lions have eaten human flesh , but there was certainly many a lion who did in the eastern areas , myself having seen the skulls of people killed by lion in the area .
I have also personally witnessed unusually bold behaviour by lions when on foot in the eastern area .

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KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:17 am 
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Ndloti,

I did not refer to the gossip within the comfort of the Polana! What I said was, during the 70s I worked in the South African travel business and often travelled to The Kruger to stay and, then, travelled by road to what was then Lourenco Marques.

With a fiance also in the business, in fact a South African who has spent his whole working life in the South African travel business, I never ever heard talk of refugees being killed in the Kruger until recently. And I would have thought, knowing so many people travelling there every week, that something would have leaked.

Perhaps the presence of Renamo patrolling the area not only prevented terrorists, but also refugees entering South Africa. An electrified fence would not be too easy to negotiate either.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:19 am 
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ndloti wrote:
I certainly question the assertion that all Kruger lions have eaten human flesh , but there was certainly many a lion who did in the eastern areas , myself having seen the skulls of people killed by lion in the area .
I have also personally witnessed unusually bold behaviour by lions when on foot in the eastern area .


I can tesitfy to the above as well. Have done many a trail since 1991 and the lions behaviour is getting much more bold.

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STOP HOTEL DEVELOPMENT IN KRUGER!!

"We must use time wisely and forever realize that the time is always ripe to do right" -Nelson Mandela.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:54 am 
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leelee wrote:
ndloti wrote:
I certainly question the assertion that all Kruger lions have eaten human flesh , but there was certainly many a lion who did in the eastern areas , myself having seen the skulls of people killed by lion in the area .
I have also personally witnessed unusually bold behaviour by lions when on foot in the eastern area .


I can tesitfy to the above as well. Have done many a trail since 1991 and the lions behaviour is getting much more bold.


I am very interested in this and wonder whether you would mind explaining the difference in their behaviour.


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 Post subject: Re: The man-eaters of Eden, life and death in Kruger NP
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:02 am 
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missings.a.! wrote:
Perhaps the presence of Renamo patrolling the area not only prevented terrorists, but also refugees entering South Africa. An electrified fence would not be too easy to negotiate either.


I imagine that Renamo could not prevent the population from fleeing , and they did not coduct a terrorist war against the rural local population per say .
The locals , seeking a better life , were fleeing a famine and break down of infrastructure as a result of the war .
I suspect little was spoken about the refugee situation in the cities as the war did not affect city dwellers in the same manner as it did affect the rural population .
The fence was easy enough to continue breaching after the initiall breaching , as the electricity supply was thus interrupted and could not easily and quickly be repaired to prevent people crossing .

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KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.


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