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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 6:40 pm 
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Those eyes can creep me out as well....but I somehow still find them adorable. Am I crazy?


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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 7:16 pm 
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:hmz: Is there a connection between TB and glaucoma? :hmz: ...

Check this out:

Glaucoma Associated with Raised Episcleral Venous Pressure: The" Red Eye" Glaucomas
Source: http://books.google.co.za/books?id=dxoF ... ucomas&lr=

and

Annals of ophthalmology‎ - Page 777
Medical - 1903
Special and General Observations on Tuberculosis of the Eye. ... for W. the
incentive to search for a possible causal connection between both affections
Source: http://books.google.co.za/books?id=Xye6 ... %27&pgis=1

I realise that this deals with human illnesses, but perhaps there is a link, somewhere, somehow?...

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 7:35 pm 
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elzet, your links leads to articles a lot to complicated to me.
Can you summaize a conclusion for us?

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 7:44 pm 
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Thanks for clarifying Pikasso :thumbs_up:

I would'nt think it was TB as I'm pretty sure that KTP is TB free (or have i made that up? :?:) The condition of the first lion pic is okay assuming that his belly is full of food. If it was full because he was bloated then I have no idea, the second Lion pic, he does some gaunt and skinny in the face and you can see the redness at the corners of the eye.

Perhaps this eye dilation is due to Hypertension? That is if Lions can suffer from hypertension as I think it is related to blood pressure :hmz:

Another thing I love about the forum-- all the information you come across in researching questions like these :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 7:59 pm 
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Hi Emily86, :shock: TB is slowly, but surely killing off all lions in the Park... there are many sites on this.... This is endangering all carnivores in the park - and a cure is 20 years away.

Picasso - In short my searches have reflected that there is a link/connection between glaucoma (reddish, 'popping-out-of-the-sockets-slid-like-eyes) and TB in humans - whether same applies to animals I'm unsure... And in my view, based on your 2nd photo of the male lion, he's regrettably infected with TB - without a doubt... :(

As long as there are buffaloes in the Park, there will be TB affecting all species of carnivores. :cry:

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Last edited by Elzet on Sat May 02, 2009 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Damned, is it so catastrophic?
I am completely ignorant in these subjects. Do you mean leopards and cheetahs will be infected too?
Are you serious saying all the lions in the Kruger may disappear?
Like Emily I thought the KTP was free of TB, is it still true?
There is no buffalo in the KTP. What is the link between them and TB? Are they the only vector?

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:31 pm 
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Hi, my apologies to all - Let me stress, the KNP is infected with the deadly TB, don't know about KTP...

Yes, all lions might disappear from KNP if they don't find a cure soon - and in fact, a cure is 20 years away... Let me get the facts and I'll post it here.

The lion in your pic bodily looks fine, but that haunted, thinnish face... that's a typical TB sign in the Park..

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:38 pm 
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Hey P, just google - it's very easy - Look for Bovine TB (buffaloes) and Feline Aids - there are more than a 100 sites in this regard.

Source: http://www.awf.org/content/headline/detail/1065

Tuberculosis Imperils Lions in Kruger Park
Apr 01, 1999


The spread of tuberculosis among the lions in South Africa's Kruger National Park is raising fears that the entire lion population may be at risk. TB has occurred primarily in buffalo in the southern sector of the park, where 1,300 of Kruger's estimated 2,000 lions live. How many lions (and members of other species) have been infected is not clear, but in skin tests performed recently on about 30 thin, unhealthy lions, 90 percent tested positive for TB.

Tuberculosis is a debilitating bacterial disease that usually affects the lungs and can occur in most warm-blooded animals. Some infected animals may live for years with few or no symptoms; others weaken quickly, become emaciated and die within weeks or months.

One of Africa's largest national parks, Kruger is 55 miles wide and 250 miles long. TB is believed to have entered the park via infected cattle in the early 1960s, before domestic livestock were fenced out. In 1990 an infected cape buffalo--one of thousands in the park--was found; since then, TB has slowly spread among most buffalo in the southern sector.

"Buffalo, as herding animals, spread TB among themselves by coughing in each other's faces," Dr. Michael Woodford, chairman of the Veterinary Specialist Group of the World Conservation Union's Species Survival Commission, told the Wildlife News. "Lions are thought to rarely spread the disease to other lions. But they often lie around and feed in groups, so that several may become infected by eating a single sick buffalo."

With no feasible cure and no preventive vaccine yet available, there are few agreeable options for eliminating the disease in wildlife areas. The usual method in domestic animals is to test the animals and slaughter the infected ones. For wildlife, one option is to separate the sick from the healthy by fencing off, in the case of Kruger, the infected southern region and erecting a second fence several miles south of the first. Buffalo in the fenced zone would be killed to "cleanse" the area. (Uninfected buffalo herds from the north would later repopulate the area.) The zone would be moved further south, gradually enlarging the uninfected area, until entire park was cleared of tubercular infection.

Fencing actually won't be an option, Woodford said, until experiments determine how long it takes a zone to become completely germ-free after the buffalo are eradicated.

The last, and most draconian, option would be to slaughter all the buffalo in Kruger.

"Under relatively undisturbed conditions, wildlife disease may be present but is only one cause of mortality among many," said Mark R. Stanley Price, director of AWF's African operations. "In much of Africa, however, where livestock are now more numerous and veterinary controls are less rigorous, disease outbreaks are far more serious."

This was ten years ago, and it is more rife than ever now. On our last three annual trips to the Park, and as recent as Jan '09, we had to drive away from lions - as it was heart-wrenching to see these so-called kings of the wild in such condition... (also cubs). In Jan '09 we found a male lion next to the road, which, in our minds, had hours (if at all) to live. When it struggled to get up... what we saw was something from a nightmare - words fail me... :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:41 pm 
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http://www.sanparks.org/parks/kruger/co ... PC_BTB.pdf

http://btb.animaldiseases.org/index.php ... &Itemid=56

Check these out.... it's reached epidemic proportions... :(

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:45 pm 
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Elzet, as I understand it, from a lecture I attended at the last South African Veterinary Congress, the average age of lions in an infected area will just come down. So if the average age was lets say 10years it will now be 8 (not real figures!). Remember that TB in Lions is a very chronic disease meaning that they can be fairly healthy for a long time even though they are infected.
There will still be lions, but maybe not quite so many big maned lions. Lions adapt very well to fill any "open" areas, so their breeding rate will increase to cover for the early deaths.
I have not heard of TB in the Kalahari. It is also unlikely as there is minimal or no contact with cattle there.
The article you quote is from 1999. There has been a lot if research since then.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Yes unfortunately, there is a lot of Bovine TB in the park, I understand that it was originally transmitted from domestic cattle to buffalo and is mainly concentrated in the southern end of the park. Evidently about 25 lions die each year of TB in KNP. It affects many other species including Cheetah and Kudu. Most commonly you would see the snout of the infected species to be swollen and the body thin with swollen glands. It is believed that about 50% of the lions in the KNP could have TB. TB would have been transmitted to lion by eating infected buffalo and now the lions are infecting each other through biting and airborne infection.
Unfortunately however there are many other symptoms, I think this Lion may well be infected. :(

If anyone know more about this disease please let me know as it is a very important issue that needs to be addressed.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:52 pm 
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Thank you Elzet

Didn't read your message before sending mine :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Thanks Elzet, Bushguy and Sable for teaching me.

Sable, the pic was taken in the kalahari, so, hopefully, it is not TB!

I can't imagine the Kruger without lions...

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:01 pm 
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bushguy wrote:
I have not heard of TB in the Kalahari. It is also unlikely as there is minimal or no contact with cattle there.
The article you quote is from 1999. There has been a lot if research since then.


Hi Bushguy,

Like I said in an earlier mail, initially I thought that reference was made to the KNP. I also stated that this article came for 1999. (According to the web, the first reported case was in 1995, i.e. 14 years ago!) The reason why I included this article is to show the history of this infectious disease, and in my mind, the devastation its causing to lions in the KNP.

Any news from that conference of yours when a cure will be found? All current research indicates a cure is 20 years away...

I hear what you're saying about lions not getting as old as in the good ol' days, but trust me, we've seen prides recently where the whole family was infected - down to the juveniles.

Feline TB is epidemic in Kruger, and if you disagree, please let me have other statistics/sites in this regard so that I can catch up with latest developments in this regard. :thumbs_up:

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Last edited by Elzet on Sat May 02, 2009 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Lions with weird eyes.
Unread postPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 9:11 pm 
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Hi, my apologies to all - Let me stress, the KNP is infected with the deadly TB, don't know about KTP...
Fair enough Elzet :thumbs_up:

Thanks for taking the time to look up all the info you have. :thumbs_up:

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