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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:52 am 
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Hi Malealea, apologies for misinterpreting your post about the lion and leopard.

Sheenaugh-Lee, I understand your frustration. My sympathy for the situation is in no way support for them entering SA. I also think a distinction needs to be made about illegal immigrants in Kruger for no other reason that crossing over into SA and those illegal immigrants entering Kruger to poach animals, two vastly different groups of ppl in my honest opinion.

As mentioned though, either way, I dont think it is right and more should be done to stop them in Kruger (and the rest of SA for that matter).

Reporting them to the nearest camp is all we can do (sadly). As has been mentioned previously, they are desperate people who will do desperate (read dangerous) things to people who try take the law into their own hands.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:34 am 
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Just caught up with this thread.

Still LMAO about this:
Stark wrote:
I read somewhere, and I can't remember if it dealt with KNP, that cross-border walkers would bang pots to make noise and scare away lions.
Didn't work, as soon lions associated the pot-banging with a dinner bell for an easy meal. :cry:
.

:twisted: :twisted:

It's a pity the Punda pride were shot out just for preferring easy-meals! :cry:

@Malealea re: Sheenaugh-Lee's post: the illegals from Moz and Zim are indeed in direct competition for work with the poorest of the poor of South Africa's citizens. It is not as if it is scientists and doctors illegally crossing the border - but mostly unschooled labourers looking for work. South Africa is a country where there is already a overly large supply of unschooled (or poorly schooled) labourers, and surely SA citizens should be looked after first before that of other countries? Maybe if there was not a 40% unemployment rate in SA, mostly among the unschooled labourers, it would not have been a problem. Educated foreigners who have something to contribute to South Africa will go through official channels and have no need to cross KNP on foot.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:47 am 
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OK we are now drifting into political waters.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:12 am 
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:thumbs_up: I agree saraf, and just feel these people should not be walking around the park no matter for which reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:52 am 
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Hi Dabchick,

I prefer to go out about this discussion, because you are right, I don´t have the exact information about the economoy in RSA. But the thing that I really dislike, is that the Argument labour is always used as a thought-terminating clishe. As I wrote earliers it is always easy to blame the foreign employees, but that is only my assumption. I can´t proove it. Because, if you look closer in the RSA economy you might find Intern Systems whicht doesn´t work well. To avoid missunderstandings, I don´t say that Illegals doing the right thing. Of Course not! Of Course we need to send them back, but we all need to threat them as humans. If I read post like tied them up on a Trailer I can only shook my head. That has nothing to do with Ethik and Respekt! That is acutally the main point I want to criticise.

I just want to add something, at the Moment it is not possible to get a Working Permit for an Foreign Person. I try it and failed. I do have an academic Degree, I do have working experience and evenso I´m comming from Germany I do have quite alot of experience in African Countries. But to get a Working permit, no Chance. So when even the academics are not getting a permit, how should they? It is not an apollogize but maybe an explination.

If all immigrants are poachers? probably not. The poaching today is well organised and a global matter, therefor it is very hard to belive that people of poor countries can orgainse themself, lie that. At the Moment in Africa operating Syndicates, manly from Asia, which are using Rhino Horn as medicin.

Hi Patto,

No Problem, happens sometime, If my voice were to sharp, sorry for that.

Best Regards

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:45 pm 
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Unfortunately there are some facts of life that cannot be ignored. Countries have laws that are changed from time to time as to who may or may not be there. It is (arguably) not fair, but nevertheless it stands.

I am also in favour of zero tolerance to 'walkers' in the park especially now that more than 2 rhinos are poached per day. It is a national park for goodness sake, not a thoroughfare for foreigners whose country cannot get it together.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:09 pm 
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Very well said BB.

The safety of tourists might also be on wobbly ground if this is allowed to continue whether we like it or not. I am more relaxed and less alert in Kruger than in the city as I do not expect people who do not belong in Kruger to walk around freely.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:17 pm 
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Well said BB and Grantmissy, my sentiments exactly

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:46 pm 
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The poachers have come up with all sorts of clever ways to outwit the authorities. So, the so called 'poor refugee' that is walking unarmed around Kruger, may be a scout for the poachers. I am talking of experience during the "Border war" The opponents of the government of the day would send out locals from the villages to do a recce and then report the whereabouts of any forces to them. I will add a bit more in the 'poaching' thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:53 pm 
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Agreed Rooies :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:05 pm 
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Bush Baptist wrote:
Unfortunately there are some facts of life that cannot be ignored. Countries have laws that are changed from time to time as to who may or may not be there. It is (arguably) not fair, but nevertheless it stands.

I am also in favour of zero tolerance to 'walkers' in the park especially now that more than 2 rhinos are poached per day. It is a national park for goodness sake, not a thoroughfare for foreigners whose country cannot get it together.


:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:


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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:10 pm 
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The bottom line is. If you see anyone breaking the rules within Kruger National Park you are asked to report it.

DinkyBird wrote:
Dear members,

I was asked by another forum member to find out if they could send in their pics of folk breaking the rules in the park, and I would like to share the reply from Kruger here with you all too.

Please note updated information:

Quote:
Rule breakers should be reported to ammon.mhaule@sanparks.org. Yes, people should include as much information such date, road, time etc.

Kind regards


Laura Mukwevho
Public Relations
Kruger National Park


While in the park - Report rule breakers and other incidents to
KNP's Emergency Call Centre on 013 735 4325


It doesn't matter who they are, where they come from, what they are doing or why they are doing it, at the earliest opportunity you should report them.

Now please leave the political comments and history at the doors of the forum when you enter.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:18 pm 
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This has been going on for ages and will be very hard to stop. Putting the fence back up will be a start. It is frightening to think they are not shy of tourists any more. I remember in the 1990's the only people seen on foot were rangers pushing their bicycle a bit. They were out looking for human spoor and snares. We gave one a lift past a lion sighting once.

I'm sure no tourist will mind seeing the hard working rangers on their bicycles again. And I believe this will also have an impact on the refugees walking the park. Or at least let them be more vigilant and reconsider the walk because they are more likely to get caught.

A great read about refugees walking the park is "The Man-eaters of Eden"

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:26 pm 
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In December 2011 we saw 2 "visitors" crossing at Mapungubwe from RSA to Zim. To make this sightimg even more interesting the Limpopo was about waste deep and they were transporting a double bed mattrass on their heads just to return for the beds base.

At Mapungubwe the trans border crossing can been seen from the decks at times. Some actually to this on a dailly bases walking to work as day wages staff on the farms in RSA and then returning home at night.

The lions have nit caught up with them yet that I know of but the Elephant have taken some.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:37 pm 
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I could swear that one Post of mine was deletet... :hmz: Anway it was all been said and thank you saraf to stop the debatte.

But last Question, maybe Saraf can help us. I think that SANP will have some statistiks, who how many and Where the refugees are gonna enter the Park. Where can I get this Infos? Because it would be intresting to see.

How many incidence between humans and Game occur p.A. and how many are Fatal? and which animal, as far as known, are killed the most humans?

Best regards

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