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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:37 pm 
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SAF wrote:
Thanks Ifubesi

With regard to a census, does it include the Timbavati, Greater Kruger National Park, Sabi Sands as they all from part of KNP?

With regard to lion prides, I feel there are far fewer big prides than few years ago.
Prides of over 10 or more are not as common as before, I can only think of a few.The mega pride of the S100 more than 30, but when they split up there are about 15 or so.The Nsemani pride 17.The Tshokwane pride of +-15.The croc bridge pride 12.
There was the Gomondwane pride of 20+ , but looks like they have split up and havnt heard of a pride of more than 10 in the Gomondwane area recently.

Lets try to start something interesting here
Let's post a picture of lion prides of 5 or more and a description of where and when it was taken.
This might help us establish the different prides and their movement?

Anyone up for this?


I think Its a pretty cool Idea, in December I had a pride of 13 lions(females and sub adult males) in the Gomondwane area, I will post a pic soon :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:44 pm 
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wildtuinman wrote:
Just for interest sake. Leopards are now far more commonly seen than back in the days when lion numbers were much higher.



I have still never seen a leopard - I don't think they actually exist! Everyone has invented them just to taunt me.. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:51 pm 
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wildtuinman wrote:
An increase in lion numbers will definitely cause a decrease in leopard numbers as they compete with each other. A lion won't hesitate for a second to make short work of a leopard in order to eliminate competition.



How often would a leopard and a lion interact anyway? I would have thought that even with a high lion population it would be easy for a leopard to disappear up a tree or avoid confrontation another way?

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:56 pm 
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G5000, unlike the belief that there is a lot of interaction, it does not happen that often. This belief is fueled by the programmes on TV cause that is something different. :slap:

Leopards, cheetah, etc, will stay well away, only hyena will really get close. :whistle:

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Graham, I am pretty sure your next August trip will see you have a good leopard sighting or two 8)
There are plenty of leopards in the Malalane area and Biyamiti area where you are staying!
but let us take this discussion elsewhere on the forum

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 7:51 am 
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Graham_5000 wrote:
wildtuinman wrote:
An increase in lion numbers will definitely cause a decrease in leopard numbers as they compete with each other. A lion won't hesitate for a second to make short work of a leopard in order to eliminate competition.



How often would a leopard and a lion interact anyway? I would have thought that even with a high lion population it would be easy for a leopard to disappear up a tree or avoid confrontation another way?


Although lions are not renowned for their tree climbing abilities, they do so with remarkable ability. But besides that, adult leopards are some of the smartest things out there, but lions do not tolerate any non streetwise leopard cubs.

The higher the mortality rate under cubs the lesser leopards you will have at the end of the day.

Scipio, it is a proved fact that lions go out intentionally to kill off opposition, even amongst their own species as what new males will do when they take over a pride or a new territory. They will not hesitate to kill leopard or cheetah.

Here is something to read to see just how easy it is for a lion to put away a leopard.

http://www.erindi.com/lion-kills-young-leopard/

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:03 am 
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As an avid follower of Big Cat Diaries back in the days I remember them constantly making mention of how tough it is to find leopards in the Masai Mara most probably due to the high density of lions in the reserve.

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:54 am 
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I agree with Wildtuinman. The mortality of leopard cubs and also wild dog pups are high, mostly due to lion. Scipio is also correct in that adult leopards will avoid lions at all cost. However, if an adult leopard is not in peak condition, he quickly gets removed from the gene-pool by lions...

Still, even though there is a high cub mortality amongst young leopards, there are very few (if any) vacant territories in Kruger. Their social habits and prey availability will determine territory sizes and unless the prey numbers change dramatically, there won't be a large increase in permanent resident leopards in the park. Young or weaker adults will have to travel outside the park to find a territory of their own which unfortunately will ultimately bring them in conflict with humans. Therefore my conclusion is still that the leopard population in Kruger is relatively stable at the moment.

:hmz: Having said that, 2 factors that may lead to an increase in leopards and a decrease in lions are climatic and vegetation changes. Some areas in Kruger have changed from open woodland to thickets in the last 50 years. That would definitely have caused a rise in species such as impala and a decline in species such as zebra and wildebeest, which could also cause a rise in leopard numbers and a decline in lion, at least in some areas.

Fascinating stuff. It would be great if we could get some input from Kruger Scientific Services on this topic.

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:16 am 
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Scipio, it is a proved fact that lions go out intentionally to kill off opposition, even amongst their own species as what new males will do when they take over a pride or a new territory. They will not hesitate to kill leopard or cheetah.


Wildtuinman, I agree 100%, but the question in concerning the frequency of this happening, and my belief is that is does not happen all that often, BUT, people might come under the impression that it does happen more often than it really does due to the Media. Programmes like Caught in the Act. etc.

It is a fact that Hyena and Lion does have a lot of interaction, but I still say that Leopard, cheetaqh etc. does not have a lot.

I do believe that lion numbers do have an impact on other predators, Lion Male numbers in a pride does have impact on hyena behaviour, another interesting fact is that a large female pride will sometimes join the Pride Male to oust intruders. I can remember not long ago that the Sweni pride, or was it the Mega Pride fought off a group af males without the pride males there.

But an interesting thread indeed. :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:31 pm 
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Hallo There!! :D


Sorry that I'm asking but is T.B a problem in the park? Because I still can recall that I have see a tv program years ago that the Kruger had the problem with Buffulo and because the lions ate them became sick.

I also saw an Male lion between Olifants and Satara witch was lying next to road looking dead but Icould see the ribs moving slowly.


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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:47 pm 
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cheetah2111 wrote:
Graham, I am pretty sure your next August trip will see you have a good leopard sighting or two 8)
There are plenty of leopards in the Malalane area and Biyamiti area where you are staying!
but let us take this discussion elsewhere on the forum


Sounds great - pm your dates! Mine are now fixed as per my signature!

wildtuinman wrote:
Scipio, it is a proved fact that lions go out intentionally to kill off opposition, even amongst their own species as what new males will do when they take over a pride or a new territory. They will not hesitate to kill leopard or cheetah.

Here is something to read to see just how easy it is for a lion to put away a leopard.

http://www.erindi.com/lion-kills-young-leopard/


That is really interesting Wildtuinman! I guess that as lion cubs tend to be under the guard of several adult lions, the reverse of this story would be unlikely - a leopard killing a young lion?

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:40 pm 
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Graham_5000 wrote:
wildtuinman wrote:
Just for interest sake. Leopards are now far more commonly seen than back in the days when lion numbers were much higher.



I have still never seen a leopard - I don't think they actually exist! Everyone has invented them just to taunt me.. :twisted:

lol, i thought the same until this trip where i saw 2 leopards in 2 days. Hey after not seeing a leopard in aprx 7 years, i'm thrilled :dance:

That being said, this is an interesting thread i will keep tabs on :thumbs_up:


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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:26 pm 
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When last did anyone see the Munchi Lion pride on the H10 between Lower-Sabie and Tshokwane

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:24 pm 
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They are still often seen chukamila.
The most knowledgeable on the pride will probably be bornfree on these forums :thumbs_up:
I follow her photos on facebook :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: LIONS OF KRUGER
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:53 pm 
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cheetah2111 wrote:
They are still often seen chukamila.
The most knowledgeable on the pride will probably be bornfree on these forums :thumbs_up:
I follow her photos on facebook :thumbs_up:


Thanks for this information cheetah

I haven’t had the opportunity of viewing that pride since October 2009 :(

I will see if I can follow her on facebook too.

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