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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:49 am 
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Hi Johan_Otten, I must agree with the other comments that it is very risky for a baby,
I took my kids to the park for the first time when they were 3 and 2 years old but it is against medical advise and it is at a risk, my kids though weighed enough so that we could malaria prophylaxis.
We also used all precautions that we could use on our children.

Sometimes it is better to just wait a couple of years until they are older which is what I decided to do after the first time I took them.
We have not been in 5 years and are finally going again this December :D .
the kids will enjoy it much more when they are slightly older as the younger ones can get very irritated being in the car all the time and the heat has a negative effect on them as well.


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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:01 pm 
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I have been going to the park since I was a little baby.
I have taken my kids since they were 2 years old as well.
I few years back my niece contracted malaria.
Thankfully she made a full recovery but having seen what she went through, I will never take a chance again by taking toddlers or babies to the park.
Its just not worth the heartache.
It's way too risky.

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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:43 pm 
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Yip, very dodge to take an infant to the Kruger, esp in summer due to the "malaria" season.

There is another point for this, is the temp increases drastically in summer periods and to keep you youngster re hydrated, will mean tons of fluid (not tons, tons... :roll: ) and shade where possible.

Baby could be infected, cannot talk, symptoms would present different such as "jaundice" like symptoms and the treatment for jaundice vs. malaria is a completely different route.

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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:50 pm 
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Scipio wrote:
There are milions of babies that grew up in Malaria areas. Mine was one, so take precautions if you do take the little one there. 8)

Guys, you are speaking of back Africa here, and we live in South Africa, and with the proper knowledge I do think it would not be too bad. :hmz:


No doubt about it. Just play it safe.

jmo

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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 8:54 pm 
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Agreed NG, but some posts seemed to make the KNP look like a graveyard full of babes deceased. :tongue:

The thing is, everybody should, like on this thread, get as much info as possible, make a choice. :thumbs_up: So no offence to anyone, and I was lucky to go to Kruger since 13 Days old at first, and only contracted Malaria at age 22 the first time, and every year since. :slap: But Knowledge, :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:


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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:28 pm 
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A few decades ago malaria might not have been an issue in Kruger but the risk definitely change after the use of DDT was stopped.
Maybe that is exactly the reason that Scipio and those that visit the park as babies only got malaria at 20 years of age or it could be that you did not listened to your mothers advice. :naughty:

I am not a fundi on Kruger cases because there will be far less compare to rural areas around the park, but when you google and compared stats from now to early 80's you will note a huge difference.

As a child we visited northern Natal (False bay and Mkhuze) and my parents did not know about any malaria risk.
I am sure they would not taken that risk if it was an issue.
The same goes for visitors to Kruger a few decades back.

My advice is to wait for a while before visiting the park.
The problem with babies is that they easily catch a virus and often become sick when away from home.
My LO caught a virus (baby measles) on his first holiday to grandma resulting a high fever.
Normal illnesses one can still cope with, but malaria will be fatal on such a small body.
In actual fact any fever can be fatal if not treated immediately.

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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:11 pm 
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Son godin wrote:
My advice is to wait for a while before visiting the park. The problem with babies is that they easily catches a virus and often become sick when away from home. My LO caught a virus (baby measles) on his first holiday to grandma resulting a high fever. Normal illnesses one can still cope with, but malaria will be fatal on such a small body. In actual fact any fever can be fatal if not treated immediately.


Agreed, as Scipio pointed out, some are making it sound harsh in Kruger Park, when it isn.t
Feveral Convulsions, Hypethermia, Hypothermia (during winter can happen) and dehydration is a daily thing regardless where you go.
The main thing is, is to immunize your little one where possible.

These immunizations are not 100% safe and can actually worsen the situation.
The vaccines used to immunize you are real live strands of the virus with a counter-measure.
Same as the flu vaccine.
Alive and manufactured in eggs.
I have not seen anything that says a 10 month old cannot have a vaccination, however, that needs to be discussed with the pediatrician who has access to tropical disease data to confirm.

If in doubt, there are numerous travel clinics that can help give you all the info you need. :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:58 am 
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Scipio wrote:
Agreed NG, but some posts seemed to make the KNP look like a graveyard full of babes deceased. :tongue:

The thing is, everybody should, like on this thread, get as much info as possible, make a choice. :thumbs_up: So no offence to anyone, and I was lucky to go to Kruger since 13 Days old at first, and only contracted Malaria at age 22 the first time, and every year since. :slap: But Knowledge, :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:


You have said it the best Scipio. Nobody should take chances, but I always wonder what about the babies that grow up in these regions. My 6 month old will in Dec go on her 3rd Kruger trip and my 3 year old will do her 13th I think.

I am well aware of the risks involved and we take serious precausions or rather preventative measures, which has always worked for us.

Kruger is not nearly as "dangerous" as it is made out to be and in my view is probably as "dangerous" as Nelspruit, but surely not in the same league as any other African state.

That is just my view and please do not base any decisions on what I am saying.


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 Post subject: Re: Infants in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 9:56 pm 
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I often hear that pretoriuskop and berg en dal are lower risk malaria areas than say lower sabie, is this true ?
Also, those who know people that contracted malaria in Kruger, did these people take all precautions excluding prophylactics such as spraying peaceful sleep, indoors at dusk, net and buring candles?


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 Post subject: Re: Infants in the park
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:02 am 
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Sybie, it has been said from time to time that some areas of Kruger are of lower malaria risk than others; it would be very difficult to prove this, as Kruger takes preventative measures in all regions as far as I am aware.
Remember, too, that your mentioned camps of Pretoriuskop and Berg en Dal are in higher rainfall areas, which may increase risk.
As malaria risk does, to some degree, depend on climatic and environmental factors, it is not always wise - and in my opinion, sometimes foolhardy - to try and justify certain areas within an officially designated malaria area as lower risk than others.
Better to be safer than sorry and take equal antimalarial precautions wherever in Kruger you may be.

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 Post subject: Re: Infants in the park
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:39 am 
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Sybie, as to your second question, it would be very difficult to notate the habits of residents within malarial areas who have contracted the disease to see how much antimalarial non-drug measures they applied over time.
Additionally, people who live permanently in seasonal-risk malarial areas - like Kruger - are always at some risk, so these people can only lessen the risk by using non-drug measures.
If staying for a relatively short period, chemo-prophylaxis (drugs) can also be considered, but antimalarial drugs are not recommended for very long-term use anyway.
Which leaves non-drug preventative measures; and these may be logistically difficult to continuously and diligently adhere to = for example, the staff member may be frequently on the move at night (patrols, night-drives, camp managers, etc.), so might not easily be able to stay indoors as much as they needed to after dark.
Also, non-drug measures may be too expensive over long periods for those in lower-income groups.
So, though at face value the answer seems simple, there are many factors to consider.

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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:41 am 
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Jo wrote:
As a person in the medical field I can strongly advise you not to take a 10 month old to a malaria area in summer.
If babies contract malaria,their immune system is not fully developed and so they cannot fight it as well as adults do, the death rate is higher.
As a recent "new" mom I would hate to see my LO suffer what I have seen other babies suffer with malaria.
So if I may offer an opinion - visit malaria free areas until your child is older.....but it is your choice.


Bushbuddies wrote:
Medically speaking - you are advised not to take children under 5 years of age to malaria areas.
This is because of the high mortality (death rate) associated with malaria in this age group.
Children this young often do not present with the classic malaria picture and get misdiagnosed.
Even if they are diagnosed early on, their chance of survival is not as good as older children or adults. Another point of concern - is even if you decide to take a 10 month old against medical advice, one can only use malaria prophylaxis (antimalarial medications) in children weighing more than 10kg.
Most 10-month old babies will not qualify for this.


:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

If you read extensive personal advice which I have posted on other threads on the SANParks forum, you will see that I am in total agreement with these statements.

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 Post subject: Re: Infants in the park
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:39 pm 
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That is what democracy allows: everyone is entitled to an opinion. From a malaria standpoint, it is always wiser not to take the children until they are at an age where their risk of contracting malaria has become similar to an adult's and they wouldn't have debilitating adverse effects from antimalarial (and other) medicines. Also, some areas are very humid and hot, and a child may just not be comfortable in such ambient conditions.

However, as to the presence of a child on a holiday, I have to say that I have, and have always had, absolutely no qualms about encouraging my daughter to enjoy whatever and wherever we are (if it's age and morally appropriate). And, I have enjoyed every single stage of my daughter's development! People often complain about the "Terrible Two's" or the "Impossible Teens", or whatever, but I have never found this to be true: it's ALL about how one views a situation and what one's attitude to that situation is! I have been blessed by being given a magnificent daughter and I have thrilled to teach and encourage her through myriads of situations; she has developed a great love and respect for nature and animals; has respect for others and herself; is well-mannered; has a supreme sense of humour and keen eye for dissecting situations; is wise beyond her years; and generally is a great joy in our lives! If I hadn't suggested, and sometimes insisted, she come with us on holiday or day-trips, she might have been a recluse, focused only on video games, TV, cellphones, or the like. We have allowed her to enjoy the bounty of the world in so many ways, and I see that it has benefited her immensely.

Yes, sometimes other people's children can be noisy and intrusive, but I have learned to focus my mind elsewhere and, if really necessary, either say something to the parents or report it to the duty manager (which I have only done once). I think back to when I was little and how much fun we had by sprinting everywhere and making up games to keep ourselves entertained. Children are children, and should be encouraged, within social ambits, to be just that; too many children these days grow up too quickly and fail to enjoy a magical childhood.

As for nappy-changing, disgorging of stomach contents, and infant odours, it has never worried me: children survive the best they know and it is our privilege to help them to do so. All I have ever seen are the blessings that a child bestows on a parent. I can only imagine if my parents did not do the same for me, what I would have turned out to be; or even whether I would be on this earth. For we forget that WE were also infants, toddlers, and teenagers - smelly, noisy, contrary, challenging!! :wink:

Supertrooper, we shall await the birth of your first when it happens (GOD-willing), and then we will hear if your song has become more dulcet. :twisted:

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TR: NECTAREAN NICETIES OF THE NORTH
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 Post subject: Re: Infants in the park
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Quote:
YES BRING YOUR INFANTS !! DESTROY MY AFTERNOON NAP WITH NAPPY CHANGING AND LOUD SCREAMING

i did not drive all the way from durban to be reminded that infants are mini-zombies.

i fail to understand how people can enjoy the holiday while the kid is between 0-8. you just cant, thats why me and the wifey havent had kids yet because we want to ENJOY peace and quiet (among other things ) in the kruger while we are young. (she's 22, me 25)

honestly, just stay at home, raise your kid and if he/she has manners and is 100% potty trained, doesnt need a leash then its all cool.


OWN :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:


Well, well, well Supertrooper - you certainly do have an attitude. :whistle:

I await the day you and your wifey have your first little Supertropper - I think you in for quite a little surprise and a big change in your attitude.

Nuf said .........


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 Post subject: Re: 10 months old baby
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:43 am 
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Duke Ellieton wrote:
Malaria can be fatal and we should not be flippant about it.

Kruger in the summer months is definitely a high risk area as illustrated in the map below and children under 5 are a high risk group

Image

The map comes from this document which has a lot of useful information on precuations, risks, treatment.


:pray: A must read post and document, for anyone seriously trying to understand the risks. But not negating the additional professional advice you should always seek. :thumbs_up:

Anyhow some question(s) if I may:
The DOH pamphlet seems to confuse its information regarding 5-year old children. On the one hand at page 17 it suggests not taking them to a "malaria area" at all; whereas on page 25 it suggests not to take a child to a high risk area.
In neither case is it clear to me whether or not prophylaxis is covered or not (the pamphlet merrily notes certain drugs are dispensible to kids under 5). So:
1. Is there any point giving prophylaxis to a 4 year-old? (ie. Does it reduce risk - in the sense of helping a 4 year-old unlucky enough to contract malaria after taking the drugs)

So two more questions:
2. Is KNP considered a "malaria area" in July (mid-winter so <10 degrees)?
3. Is KNP considered a "high risk area" in Summer (the pamphlet's map at page 27 suggests not)?

I guess its poorly written, or defensively written being a government document ... but I would be grateful if learned forumites could point me towards clearer answers to my 3 questions.


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