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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:28 pm 
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Senior Virtual Ranger
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Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:52 pm
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Our recent sightings were:

A herd of 17 at Babalala May 2010.
A group of 5 at Nshawu in May 2011, one female was pregnant, I have her photograph and my computer screen.
Our prime sighting was a huge herd of 27 on the S52 close to the Red Rocks causeway, October 1970, my best moment in the KNP yet.

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Done 144 visits to National Parks.
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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Location: On my stoep. Sell by date not expired yet!!
Saw a herd of ten near Babalala just recently.
Us together with a bunch of rangers.

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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:43 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:24 pm
Posts: 521
Location: Somerset West
Hello from a chilly Somerset West! :lol:

I am so thankful for all the meaningful contributions -- I have been enlightened! So many factors and so little knowledge!

No, I did NOT duck and disappear because of flack over my suggestions!

In August there is not a minute to waste when you can spend a weekend in Namaqualand, even though it was raining heavily when we left on Friday. To all of you who can make it -- GO AND SEE NAMAQUALAND. IT IS STUNNING!

Mind you, I only saw Nieuwoudtville down to Clanwilliam over Pakhuis pass, but wow! :clap:

God willing, I will be in Kruger in 4 weeks' time, to photograph elephants and baobabs and lots of dust and red sunsets (wishful thinking!), and maybe, just maybe, I'll spot a roan or eland up north near Punda Maria!

Re Mokala, obviously care must be taken not to damage the environment etc. but there are not too many `original' free roaming mammals left that could be negatively affected by the maintenance of breeding herds of roan and sable -- so PLEASE DON'T GET RID OF THEM!

Please keep on feeding us with info!

Lets not forget the bigger picture -- my point was simple -- you can't restrict animals to certain areas only because they "originally occured here" when there are changes in the environment that they cannot adopt to or flee from behind fences -- we put them there and we need to manage them without tunnel vision...

Thanks and God bless! :lol:

Friedrich von Hörsten

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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Have you all seen this topic on Roan numbers in Kruger - link

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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 9:50 pm 
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"Unscientific" has become very scientific, so we are moving this discussion to the Science forum :D

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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:04 pm 
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A paper on the Changing Distribution of the larger ungulates in Kruger - here


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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:22 pm 
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DinkyBird wrote:
"Unscientific" has become very scientific, so we are moving this discussion to the Science forum :D


:dance: I think we have probably made Forum history! It is possibly the first time ever a thread gets "upgraded" to a "higher intelectual" forum rather than being moved down to chit-chat or similar (With terrible appologies and humble excuses to all our valuable forum equals in chit-chat! :shock: )

Another factor in animal population decline is the patchy distribution of species. Having a look at the distribution charts DE so kindly highlighted shows that these animals (Roan, Sable, Tsessebe, Lichtensteins, Eland) in KNP is patchily distributed. When numbers become low this can cause animals to start battling to find suitable groups and mates for reproduction.

Young animals will often leave a natal heard to find another heard where they have a better chance to become a reproductive adult. But when there are no other herds available in the vicinity, they have to stay in their natal heard, with possible negative genetic and social consequences. Or they need to start moving long distances to try and find a suitable heard. This may expose them to increased risk of predation, injury and eventually leave them isolated.

Conservation efforts needs to take this in to consideration. In small reserves active management of genetics and social interaction becomes important to try and mimic a more natural system which has become absent.

Just to adress the question of removing animals from Mokala. I don't think there is any plans to remove any species from Mokala at the moment. At least not which I am aware of (Which is NO guarantee!). I think we can assume that SANParks is very much aware of the value and goal of Mokala. The current animal population of Mokala is a direct result of a very recent and intentional relocation and management process when the park was started just very recently.

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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 6:32 pm 
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I want to touch on something that's been at the back of my mind for a while - natural migration.

Exactly what does it mean? In layman's terms I would think it means exactly that :twisted: In other words allow the animals to migrate as far and wide as is humanly possible taking into account fences, suitable habitat, availability of water, etc. Bear with me please.........

Trans-frontier parks - a dream IMHO - but, a dream all of us must be dreaming if we want our grandchildren to see more than just gramps phodies of a Roan bull. (did anyone notice the female in the phodie I posted did not have horns?). Ellie I can understand - there could be a few matriarchs still alive today that could remember a route she traveled as a youngster. Jip, I'm thinking of lifespan and if and how lifespan would affect migration.

If they remove the fence between Mokala and Lilydale for instance, how much time will pass before some animals venture into unknown territory? Unknown to some of them, even though they might have been born right next to the old fence. The difference in behavior between animals we watched in Lilydale and then watching the same species in Mokala was quite noticeable. Yes, I know Lilydale used to be a hunting farm and it will take some time - but it's been quite a few years already. And "odd" behavior is not limited to Lilydale - the biggest herd of Eland I ever saw came running like a freight train across the road in Mokala ( what an amazing sight and we experienced the same thing the following day during a guided tour). I got a few reasonably good photos of Roan and Gemsbok on the Lilydale side of the fence.

So much to learn, so little time.

Oops :wink: back on topic - so how do we get SANPARKS to re-think the statement ? -

“ONLY ANIMALS THAT LIVED IN THIS AREA IN THE PAST, WILL BE ALLOWED/RELOCATED TO THIS AREA IN THE FUTURE!”

and a phodie of the animals we all love dearly - crossing the road towards Babalala picnic spot - one of my best sightings ever
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 7:39 pm 
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This sighting is absolutely remarkable! Well done. :)
Seen the Roan often but never a Lichtenstein hartebeest.

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I participate because I care - CUSTOS NATURAE
No to Hotels in and commercialization of our National Parks.
No to Legalized Rhino and Lion trade.
Done 144 visits to National Parks.
What a wonderful privilege.


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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Yes, nice kiekie.

Do we have any more news on the Anthrax outbreak? :hmz:

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 Post subject: Re: Some "unscientific" ideas to save the Roan Antilope
Unread postPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:49 am 
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Just a bit of historical information here:

In 1970 I saw a herd of about 12 mature Sable Antelope, including some magnificent males with huge horns, approaching the Mtshawu Dam (actually just a small waterhole back then?) on what is now known as the Albasini Road NW of Pretoriuskop - about 10 KM north of Numbi gate. About 1 km further on (north) I saw a small herd of about 10 roan, also mature animals with bulls sporting impressive horns walking toward the waterhole. I took a picture of both herds but those pics may now be long lost. :(

Thought I'd mention this to contribute info on Roan distribution in southern areas back in those days..


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