SANParks.org Forums

heya AjayB, we could have lots of fun here with this philosophy because it is such a hard one to get a good definition around, with almost everyone feeling differently about it, and feeling strongly about it too. (It is going off topic a bit so if a moddie wants to relocate it......)
Now I am not having a go at you or anyone, but just playing with the philosophy.... so no offence intended anywhere.

With the statement above, lets take that as accepted.
But, if we take roads - the effect of tar roads means that precipitation, rain, dew etc, tends to run off the road, due to the camber, onto the side of the road, resulting in increased lushness of of the grass there. This causes in turn, increased insect activity there, with resultant bird activity. Further, antelope tend to gather there in greater numbers. These occurrences are as a direct consequence of man's interference - if the road wasn't there - there would not be the unnatural congregations of life. A very unfortunate side effect is the numbers of insects, worms, birds and antelope etc. that get flattened by cars, some speeding, some travelling within limits. But dead the beasties are. Now, roads are out of the way areas, ... so to save the animals, the roads should be closed...
A daft example, but actually a VERY real one.

Then if we examine the consequences of some animals actions on other animals, because of original interference by man....
Take the birdhide. Man originally puts it in place, and lets assume that man has no more direct effect on animals.
Due to the hide being there, there is an unnatural sand patch underneath the hide, where the sun is shaded so grass does not grow. There is as a result an unnatural abundance of ant lions there, which cause unnatural levels of death, destruction, slaughter and mayhem amongst the ant population.....
At night, insectivores are attracted there due to the unnaturally high numbers of ant lions, in unnatural numbers, which results in a higher than usual number of fatalities from owls, caracals etc.
Man is not directly responsible, but indirectly, but ultimately still responsible due to his actions.

Ultimately, because we have started to interfere, we need to continue interfering. If we do not want to interfere at all, then we have to pull out completely. Even more unfortunately, as repulsive as it is - sometimes we have to interfere with innocent animals, even killing them at times.
So, if things are put on a scale - which is worse - forcibly removing a snake, possibly having to kill it, as it is in a hide, or the death of 10 000s of insects, hundreds of birds, dozens of mammals due to the roads.....

Hey David -- Not a daft example at. Valid in absolute terms.Nature is very resilient and I am sure it wont suffer too badly with one less Black Mamba. And there will always be roadkill. But there will be less if people slowed down.So lines are drawn.And a line that you draw with a black mamba cant leave margin for error.And maybe its easy for me to argue sitting here in Cape Town and most unfortunately with no prospect in the immediate future of visiting Sweni hide, that the absolute principle of it being a park that belongs to the animals first and foremost be applied in this case.But I still believe it should be left and definitely not killed.

Close the hide then is my view.It is after all right next to big stopping spot at Nwanetsi lookout and surely the impact on the quality of most visitors day without it will be minimal?

Whatever we say here doesnt really matter I suppose as the very real possibility exists that something has already been done and we just dont know what that is.......

Throw this argument into the mix (whether you agree with it or not):
The long-term survival of the park depends on visitors and there money. How much of this money does this facility attract? How much money would be lost if the snake bit someone at this hide? How much would it cost to relocate the snake?

Please don't shoot me ndloti, was just presenting the argument.

Look at it from a risk/reward (cost-benefit ratio) point of view: what is the risk of the snake biting someone, and how much fallout would it cause? Weight that up against moving the snake.

One must also bear in mind that this story is about one snake. What about all the lions etc that have been hiding in restrooms lately? This is a daily reality for Sanparks. Do they remove all animals? All potentially dangerous animals? Will they remove the wasp from my bungalow?

Shall we start with asking SANparks what happened to the snake

And the lions in restrooms?

Next month there'll be another incident of this type.

What is the 'philosophical' answer?

Just like the problem monkeys that some believe are relocated ...

Too much analysis.

Either close the hide permanently or, until the snake has gone. Or, move the snake.

It would be wrong to kill it.

Depends a lot on the philosophy makers....

But a good guideline in this and many other things:
To do what needs to be done, as simply as possible, as gently as possible, cause as little harm as possible, disturb as few as possible, as cheap as possible, as quickly possible ....... and be as wise as possible. in every situation, where the lines from those meet...
but then that may be aiming too high

it is an art though, to find that balance, and the balance will always be changing. which is why people like the SanParks are never able to keep everyone happy.

Soon this thread will have to be moved to Chit Chat .

Leave the poor animal alone !
We allready drive them enough up the wall !
The murder and assault rate by humans on animals is much higher than vice-versa .
If only the folks were as worried about being injured or worse in a road accident en route to KNP , let alone the murder and assault rate outside the KNP .

We were there in April - would not have gone in there if I knew.
As far as I know BM are territorial If happy and fed why would it move?

Any news lately?

You mean this note



I was there the saturday (26 December) for almost 3 hours. Spend the time with my cuz, of which 1 hour sleeping in my camping chair. We didn't have any (human) visitors that day. The sunday we wanted to return and repeat the same wonderful experience. Guess we weren't alone after all The gate was indeed locked. Thursday 29 December, the hide was open again...

Hey, new to this forum, dont know how to load images, willing to email to someone. Need help in identifying this snake. Residing in Pietermaritzburg (natal midlands). Please help......

Welcome to the forum liewelulu Sorry I'm not an expert concerning snakes, but I could upload your pic here. Will write a PM to you.

Listen I think you have a black mamba there.Would not handle it like that if I were you.The give away is the black inside the mouth and the white belie.Not an expert but it looks like a BM to me.And looks aggressive with that open mouth