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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:21 pm 
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DuQues wrote:
And only silly people shoot in jpeg


Calling me silly? :naughty:


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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:25 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Sprocky wrote:
I must say that I agree with Switchback 100%. :thumbs_up: I do not clone anything on a wildlife shot, all that I do is levels and sharpening.

Let's get philosophical.
What is the difference between removing a distracting branch on the periphery (or any manipulation), and sharpening and changing levels? You are still manipulating the image to improve it.

Are manipulations not created equal? Where does one draw the line?

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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:31 pm 
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Honorary Virtual Ranger
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If you see what you can do with RAW, and then the small list of things with jpg... Then you may reconsider shooting jpg with a RAW-capable camera.

But ontopic:
Quote:
Are manipulations not created equal? Where does one draw the line?

Personally my line is drawn at 1 point: all that you can easily do in a darkroom with negatives is allowed. So cropping, levels, etc is, but cloning out branches not. (Sensor dust is.)

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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:35 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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DuQues wrote:
If you see what you can do with RAW, and then the small list of things with jpg... Then you may reconsider shooting jpg with a RAW-capable camera.
I do shoot RAW :)

DuQues wrote:
But ontopic:
Quote:
Are manipulations not created equal? Where does one draw the line?

Personally my line is drawn at 1 point: all that you can easily do in a darkroom with negatives is allowed. So cropping, levels, etc is, but cloning out branches not. (Sensor dust is.)

Who made that rule? I mean why is it ok to manipulate an image at the darkroom stage? You're still manipulating the image.

(Am only playing devil's advocate.)

I will try post the originals soon so you can see the extent of the cloning.

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The 'mite formerly known as joshilewis

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Glen Reenen TR

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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:36 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Sorry Duco, you did say that that line is your personal line.

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Glen Reenen TR

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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:39 pm 
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I years gone by when you handed a film in for, as they called it, developing, the guy printing your shots would change settings to enhance your shot without you even knowing about it. Now those subtle changes are acceptable in wildlife shots.


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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:41 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Sprocky wrote:
I years gone by when you handed a film in for, as they called it, developing, the guy printing your shots would change settings to enhance your shot without you even knowing about it. Now those subtle changes are acceptable in wildlife shots.

Fair reason I suppose. (Makes me wonder why the few film shots I took had such bad colour...)

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The 'mite formerly known as joshilewis

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Glen Reenen TR

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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:45 pm 
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joshilewis wrote:
Sprocky wrote:
I years gone by when you handed a film in for, as they called it, developing, the guy printing your shots would change settings to enhance your shot without you even knowing about it. Now those subtle changes are acceptable in wildlife shots.

Fair reason I suppose. (Makes me wonder why the few film shots I took had such bad colour...)


Bad choice of lab. :whistle:


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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:04 pm 
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Hi Switchback, well first of all I agree with your point of view. My Breasted Roller cloning was done as an example of how much you can change an image with some very simple processes. I try and keep it as natural as possible and intervene only with cropping and colour balance, that is on my personal pictures.
I use Lightroom and Photoshop a lot and must say that in the last couple of years I've been able to "save" some of my best memories which I had on slides or printed.
I have seen quite a few pictures on the forum which filled me with doubts on how natural/real they really were and how much post-processing had been done.

On the other hand for work I use all the possibilities, filters and tricks offered by digital software. I have, on a regular basis people, dark skinned people who ask me to lighten their colour (!) and pale people who want to be "tanned". Removing spots, scars, straightening noses etc etc have become and are part of everyday work in my field. I'd say 99% of the sexy ladies you see on roadside poster have been fixed well beyond what would be considered acceptable.

Before the digital era dark room manipulation had it's limits and a bad shot could become decent but certainly not excellent. Today things are a lot different and bad shots can be revived, cropped, manipulated and so on without any real limit on possibilities.

I agree with DuQues on shooting Raw, jpeg cuts your legs when you want to do something with your pictures. Raw offers the whole range of possibilities and there are few limits to what you can do.

Limits on post-process, yes I agree on this when it gets to publication or photo contest.

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LIFE IS MADE OF GOOD AND BAD THINGS, I TAKE THE GOOD AND YOU CAN KEEP THE BAD!!!
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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:19 pm 
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Andy :thumbs_up: , on the RAW issue, I will shoot on RAW again once it is my income. Doing photography as a hobby, to me RAW is not essential but when it pays the bills it is another story. At R800 per day to shoot in KNP as a hobby ...no. :whistle:


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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:25 pm 
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Senior Virtual Ranger
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So is there anybody that can place a winning picture witout any "after work" done. :lol:

BTW, I am getting PS from a frien tomorrow

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Soon, very soon.......


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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:26 pm 
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Location: Northwold with KTP on my mind...
DuQues wrote:
There are plenty ways to see if an image has been altered....
As we are planning to run the annual photocompetition again I'm not going to list them, but you can trust my words....


Oh yes, I agree 100% with that... :thumbs_up:

joshilewis wrote:
I have however read quite a bit of comment on the Internet about manipulating nature shots. A lot of people say that by taking a photograph, you're manipulating the scene anyway, (white balance, perspective distortion due to focal length etc), so in any case there is no such thing as a 'true to life' or 'realistic' image.


True in a way, but the colours were there, the lens was there, the light was there. I'm not taking any light, colours etc away, neither am I adding any colour, light etc. I am only working and tuning light and colour that was already present. In the same way, I'm not adding a branch or taking away a piece of grass.

Then again, when I am photographing a wedding like this weekend again, I take out all the stops: I use reflectors, move things around, make her pose and make the bride look absolutely PERFECT - because that is what she is paying me for. This is completely different in nature though, the word "nature" speaks for itself. A bride spend thousands to look her best and it is my job to reflect that in my images.

An interresting point: Go on the Nikon Club of SA's website and look there at the different categories - they tell you where manipulation is allowed and where not.

Again, just my 2c... 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:22 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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OK guys I am the one who seems to have sturred up the hornet's nest here, and by the way I was stung by 3 of the little devals yesterday, so let me put in my feelings
There are two situations here. One is compatition work and the other is photos for your own personal use. If the compatition rules -- which is the case in most nature photogrophy -- says no manipulation then that is what I will submit. But if I have a photo of a "wanted" bird for example and there is an offending branch then I will clone out that branch and save the photo --- my record of that bird in my "to keep" file.
Some compatition rules even go as far as to say no man made objects may be in the photo -- that includes things like rubbish, sides of a road, fences and poles etc. Gets all that more harder to get that perfict shot.
Keep Clicking :cam:

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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:32 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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I really enjoy this debate.

Here is a challenge: Try to remember your most outstanding sighting ever, without looking at your photo's, that is. Recreate that image in your brain. Are there any twigs in that image? a tar road? any unwanted objects? was the object in the far distance? I bet not. You are more than likely to remember a very well composed image without distractions.

I took photographs to encase my memories in something more reliable than just my memories and to share these memories with other people. I can therefore manipulate as much as I want, as long as the photo is true and honest to what I saw or would have remembered otherwise. I can adjust the light to what I remember. I can crop away areas and I may clone away a twig if it really spoils my memory.

If I ever enter a competition, it is very simple: stay with the rules 100%.

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http://www.sanparks.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=34300


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 Post subject: Re: Post-processed Photos
Unread postPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:45 pm 
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Honorary Virtual Ranger
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Scipio wrote:
So is there anybody that can place a winning picture witout any "after work" done. :lol:

It didn't enter any competition (yet) but all that was done here was a 1/2 degree edit to the horizon....

Image

:whistle:

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Feel free to use any of these additional letters to correct the spelling of words found in the above post: a-e-t-n-d-i-o-s-m-l-u-y-h-c


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