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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:04 pm 
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Senior Virtual Ranger
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Thanks for your reply saraf, much appreciated :gflower:

Will wait and see what Sanparks have to say, I hope this can be sorted out to satisfy all concerned

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:13 pm 
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Senior Virtual Ranger
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saraf wrote:
Just to try to clarify.

Your post will not be all over Facebook. What will be on Facebook is a link back to the thread that contains your post on the forum. The only people who will see the link are friends of the person who has linked back. This is no different to anyone logging onto Facebook and linking to a thread in forum.

This happens now, I've done it myself so that my non SANParks-loving friends can see trip reports and the anti-poaching campaigns on here.

This forum is public. There is only one board on here that is restricted to members, Indaba. Anyone at any time can see what you post. And try typing "Kruger National Park" into Google and the third or fourth result will be SANParks.org - the parent website for this forum. We are easily found, we are not an isolated community.

I'm not saying I like it or not, just pointing out the realities.


Sorry Saraf but this does not really answer my concerns which are as follows:

First, that by linking to FB one's intellectual property rights are compromised.Thus by linking FB to the SANPark site, what we put on here in terms of photographs, trip reports, art or poetry, discussions and ecological information, may give FB the right to use any of this material.

See this quote:

Quote:
By agreeing to Facebook’s terms of service you also agree that for any content which has intellectual property rights that you post on the Zuckerberg express you give “non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use.”

This means you give Facebook the right to transfer, license and use your content royalty-free – for NO MONEY. Not a big deal for grandma posting pics of her new grandkids but a huge deal for professional photographers trying to make money off their photos.

In lawyer speak, Facebook could conceivably – if they wanted to – sell all your content to a third-party and not pay you a dime.


HERE

Second, we were never given the opportunity to object or have any input into the presence of this button. |it was imposed upon us with no thought as to the ramifications.

Third, FB can dump cookies and abstract information. People should have a choice on whether this should happen.

Fourth, I agree with arks - FB buttons detract from the forum. It spoils the look and feel of every page and personally I no longer feel comfortable posting.

Fifth, SANParks is using their forum members in an uncontrollable way to drive some kind of publicity their way.. I like the right to select who I publicise the forum to - an believe me I have publicised it to many people.

SixthIf our FB button is taken over by a worm or similar , I don't know whether this might affect - or rather infect- my computer.


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:34 pm 
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salamanda I agree with you all the way :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:43 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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I'm still confused. I went on the VHR sites (and even my "confidential" interview for VHR) and the like buttons were there. Could those "private" sites be made public? I am on FB but I keep it separate from the Forum and SHR things. I am all for promoting the Forum but posts made in good faith should not be made public without consent.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:59 pm 
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Dear Hippotragus and all other concerned 'mites, please read here :
salamanda wrote:
MATTHYS wrote:
Salamanda and Threedogs, were you still logged onto the forums when testing ?
Someone/people you share with, might not be able open your link if not registered members and logged in ?


Hi Matthys: I tried it both ways. This was only in the Indaba forum. If I was not logged in, i went to the usual notice asking you to register. I guess that with the rest of the site you will be taken to the thread.

and here :
threedogs wrote:
MATTHYS wrote:
Salamanda and Threedogs, were you still logged onto the forums when testing ?
Someone/people you share with, might not be able open your link if not registered members and logged in ?



You're right. My partner tried it without being logged in to Sanparks and it just took him to the Sanparks login page. When he logged in the FB link took him took the thread. So I guess the FB Like button is just default set to appear on every single comment regardless of whether it actually allows access or not. :hmz:

It just feels intrusive and I'm not keen on it at all. :(


No one not registered and not logged in will be able to read links to 'for members only' forums and closed forums will remain closed to all without access to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:06 pm 
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The posts are not being made available to Facebook. A link to a thread is being posted.

If someone clicks on a link to a closed forum they are not entitled to view then the forum software will tell them so. If you look earlier in this thread Threedogs Liked a post in Indaba and her non-member SO could not see the post as he was not logged in.

Salamanda - I will ask SANParks PR to answer that particular point. However I will repeat, all that is being posted on FB is a link NOT content. So all FB could claim ownership to is some code that tells an internet browser where to find something.

Edit. I see Matthys beat me to it.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:38 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Thanks for explaining, saraf. Beginning to make sense! I'm not very computer or technologically literate at the best of times.
I think it will all settle down in time and we can relax.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:45 pm 
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I think if it was explained to us before the button made an appearance, it would have prevented all the apprehension it has caused :hmz:

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:43 pm 
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and what about the "don't like" button :hmz: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 12:06 am 
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:lol: Anne-Marie.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:45 am 
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Despite all the explanations and attempts at justification, I still find this FB like button both invasive and totally unnecessary. It certainly will further discourage me from participating on the forum. I really think the whole idea of there being a "need" for a "like" button is stupid and devalues the forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:59 am 
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MATTHYS wrote:

No one not registered and not logged in will be able to read links to 'for members only' forums and closed forums will remain closed to all without access to it.


What difference does that make? To register you just need an e mail addy and about a minute, it is not like there is a screening process. :hmz:


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:52 am 
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All the explanations are plausible and true BUT:
a) No consultation with forum users raises suspicions that something else may be changed without our knowledge in future using this instance as a precedence.
b) Some forumites (like ourselves) stopped using Facebook because of many requests from unknown people who wanted to be a "friend"
c) Surely the original request for a "like" button should have been worded: " a like button SIMILAR to that used on Facebook"??

Sorry, Mods - don't like it, don't want it and lack of communication regarding its implementation is worrying.

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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:19 am 
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PLEASE remove it. I find it distracting a and irritating. There is a very active SANPARKS page on FACEBOOK - use that if you want to comment on FB. I love FACEBOOK but PLEASE PLEASE let's keep them separate. I also find that I am getting error messages on some of the pages which never occurred before.


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 Post subject: Re: Facebook like button
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:40 am 
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Right. I'm not too worried about my posts, bit I will NOT be posting any more photos here as long as there is a facebook "Like" button. My reasons are simple:
threedogs wrote:
From Facebook terms of use:

For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License).

Do they include links in "or in connection with"?
Quote:
This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.

ie. you may or may not be able to delete it and revoke said permission. You may or may not even know if you CAN delete it. Since I'm not on facebook, how will I ever be able to manage my IP?

Quote:
and:

Special Provisions Applicable to Social Plugins

If you include our Social Plugins, such as the Share or Like buttons on your website, the following additional terms apply to you:

We give you permission to use Facebook's Social Plugins so that users can post links or content from your website on Facebook.

You give us permission to use and allow others to use such links and content on Facebook.

You will not place a Social Plugin on any page containing content that would violate this Statement if posted on Facebook.

When I post my photos here, I post my IP, trusting that SANParks would use it with respect. Since I have not giver permission for my IP to be shared on facebook, and SANParks have no right to give said permission, this is a page that violates the above statement.

Since I know I'm just a lone voice in a social-media-mad world, that will probably get ignored in the long run, I will simply take whatever action I can to protect my IP, and that includes keeping it off this forum. I will probably also end up deleting photos I have already posted, as soon as I find the time. It's sad, but I can't risk granting facebook a licence, since then I loose the ability to claim any kind of exclusivity in future, whether that is an exclusive use licence on a stock site, or selling a print as "one of a kind"...


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