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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Hi Saraf,

What I understood from the above post from moderators is that the following posting of photos are allowed:

Allowed to post Thumbnail:

Image

The following photo is not allowed due to the link printed on the photo but not a link that can be open on the forum page:

Image

If you did open the thumbnail of the photo that you do allow to be posted on the forum, you will get a link to the photographer's website, which means that the first photo actually have an indirect link, while with the second one that you do not allow, you cannot find the website without googling the name.

Is it then correct that the one post with no link cannot be used while the other one is fine because you cannot see the website when only viewing the SANParks forum page. :hmz:

I've seen many of these type of posting being done during the past few days and just wonder to what extend do those mite spam if you call a website name on a photo the same as spamming. Are you going to remove those post then?

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:37 pm 
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Virtual Ranger
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Are we making this a bit more complex than it needs to be? Success will be measured by the # of paid links, while taking into account a share of customer dissatisfaction with the new rule.

I can see why some folks are frustrated, but this is one of, and probably the smallest, social media tool in the SANParks toolbox. Do what I do - utilize one of the other options/alternatives.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 9:56 pm 
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Senior Virtual Ranger
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Sorry Sparks, but no we are not making it more complex than needed. So often on this forum are people reminded that adherence to the rules are a non-negotiable, wether park rules or forum rules.

At present I find the rule on this very ambiguous as this extends beyond just a link in a signature. Adding to Son Godin what is allowed with photos? I link from Flickr, but this is a commercial website and linking to it is advertising them, IMHO.

The standard BBcode link that Flickr provide contains a number of elements, what is allowed and what not:

Image
Cape Teal, Paarl, December 2013 by roelofvdb, on Flickr

1. Link back to Flickr via the photo url
2. My name in the text linking to my Flickr profile
3. "on Flickr"?

Obviously the website in my watermark is not allowed,even though the photo links to flickr and not to my site. But now is flickr allowed but my site not? A double standard?


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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 10:14 pm 
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Virtual Ranger
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I get what you're saying, but I'm not Sparks. :)

My post was to point out that I have been much happier when it finally hammered home that the rules here often are used in ways I disagree with integrity-wise, and that I was "free to see other channels and sites" to get the connection I used to get here exclusively. If this is the straw that breaks your back, I get it. But I don't think forum management will change.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:06 am 
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Distinguished Virtual Ranger
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Guys, we have our wires crossed. :wink:

This project only relates to links in signatures.
Links and watermarks on photos are not managed by the VHR's. It is still subject to the forum rules to be managed by the moderators.

Photographers for instance could never post links in their signatures to their sites if they were in the business of selling photos. Some did and got away with it, others were pulled up which resulted in grey areas as far as the rules were concerned.

Generally speaking the most members links don't do much harm but if it's a free for all the forum might be overrun by commercial advertising. The question came up about how members could be accommodated without risking our neat and tidy forum becoming a rolling billboard.

One also needs to realize that SANParks has to protect their business interests so this had to be controlled in some way particularly regarding the sort of commercial links that could be allowed.

This project would level the playing field for all and would also result in fund raiser to benefit our parks. It seems like a fair solution?
This forum has a high Google rating so the benefit should flow both ways.

Son godin wrote:
I've noted by only browsing a few posts that active and hidden link in signatures are still visible, as well as links in post.

Son godin, you are perfectly correct.
Links in signatures should be removed across the board.

Particularly commercial links in posts were never allowed. I cannot speak on behalf of the mods but I'm sure that they will not rip the pond out from under the duck when it comes to links in posts. I'm sure if a link is posted and it is in content with the post, it will not be removed without good reason. If a member repeats a link in every post or most posts, it has always and will still be seen a spam.

Please help us clean up the forum by reporting such posts and the moderators will make sure to have it removed?
The removal process was done by means of a software run which could only recognize proper links.

Should you apply for a paid (or free) link in your signature, a code will be given to you which should be posted with the link in your signature. That will signal to all that you may post the link with the blessing of the mods and SANParks.

Hope that clears up a few questions. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:11 am 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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JenB,

Its clear with me on the signature links, but what I understand of post from moderators is that photo signature links are not allowed even if it is a non-commercial site. See quotes from mods below:

MATTHYS wrote:
Dear Imax, PRWIN, DrPhil, Arks and all other valued 'mites.

There seems to be a misunderstanding about this new project.

Advertising on the forums and linking to personal and commercial websites have always been against the forum rules and this will remain so. Nothing is being taken away from any of us.
This new project is offering all of us an opportunity to advertise and have links, but in a controlled way, within the rules and doing so at a nominal fee.


DinkyBird wrote:
Hi PRWIN

PRWIN wrote:
Can a web site address be included on a photo as the photo is already a promotion tool for sanparks as per a copyright signature ...

No. You cannot included a website address on your photo. You obviously may copyright your photo, and protect your intellectual property as you are doing now by using your name "2014 PR Winnan", but not by using your website address on photos posted here on these forums.

Please see Rule # 17:
Quote:
17. You may not use any part of these forums to establish, promote, maintain or provide, or assist in establishing, promoting, maintaining or providing your own commercial services.


Should you wish to advertise your photo website, please see the first post on this topic as to how to go about this.


The problem with this rule is that it is not well managed by moderators as can be seen from TT where the poster added a website on the photo and moderators comment on photos but do not ask the poster to change the photos.

Even if this rule is applied it is still easy to add a link as demonstrated by myself and Imax. My question is why is there such a rule if it is impossible to control then.

What I understood so far is no photos with web sites on allowed except the photographers name. Links is fine via any other commercial site as long as it is not on the photo. :doh:

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 8:22 am 
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Distinguished Virtual Ranger
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I'm sorry but I cannot comment on any links except those covered by this project.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Senior Virtual Ranger
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Stark wrote:
I get what you're saying, but I'm not Sparks. :)



Sorry Stark, the heat of the moment... :redface:


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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:55 am 
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So we may not advertise commercial services - fine. But what if you're an amateur/hobbyist? Are you then allowed to have your photos link to your photo website? (It's not commercial - just a gallery/blog)


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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:55 pm 
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squirrel_asc wrote:
So we may not advertise commercial services - fine. But what if you're an amateur/hobbyist? Are you then allowed to have your photos link to your photo website? (It's not commercial - just a gallery/blog)

Yes, at a reduced fee as per the first post. :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:27 pm 
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squirrel_asc wrote:
So we may not advertise commercial services - fine. But what if you're an amateur/hobbyist? Are you then allowed to have your photos link to your photo website? (It's not commercial - just a gallery/blog)


JenB wrote:
squirrel_asc wrote:
So we may not advertise commercial services - fine. But what if you're an amateur/hobbyist? Are you then allowed to have your photos link to your photo website? (It's not commercial - just a gallery/blog)

Yes, at a reduced fee as per the first post. :thumbs_up:


:big_eyes: :big_eyes: :hmz: Do I laugh ,cry or hold my head in my hands :? What is a photo website. It is a place where you place your photo's on the web for others to see like photobucket, flickr, and so on. What I now understand is that you will have to pay a fee to place photo's on the forum in a TR as you are using a photo website :big_eyes:


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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:43 pm 
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PRWIN wrote:

:big_eyes: :big_eyes: :hmz: Do I laugh ,cry or hold my head in my hands :? What is a photo website. It is a place where you place your photo's on the web for others to see like photobucket, flickr, and so on. What I now understand is that you will have to pay a fee to place photo's on the forum in a TR as you are using a photo website :big_eyes:


Getting closer to banning cameras in all parks unless visitors pays extra to take it in. :cam: Maybe putting copyright burnmarkings on all animals to force people to pay to use their own photos. :wall:

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:46 pm 
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JenB wrote:
squirrel_asc wrote:
So we may not advertise commercial services - fine. But what if you're an amateur/hobbyist? Are you then allowed to have your photos link to your photo website? (It's not commercial - just a gallery/blog)

Yes, at a reduced fee as per the first post. :thumbs_up:

The original post refers to links in signatures, not via posted photos.

Since the original post does not make any mention of links via photos, and I have not been given any further information re. links via photos, I will assume that it is Ok, and continue to have photos I post on this forum link to my photo website.


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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:51 pm 
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Location: Pretoria
DrPhil wrote:
force people to pay to use their own photos. :wall:

Actually, they already to that to some extent with their permit system.

If I, as a hobbiest, visit the park just like any other tourist, paying full price and sticking to all the rules, and someone approaches me and ask to buy a print after posting it on my personal website, I need to get a commercial permit for said photo. :roll:

To my knowledge, their definition of "financial gain" has never been satisfactorily explained in the context of eg. winning a photography competition with a photo taken in a National Park...


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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Distinguished Virtual Ranger
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Location: Johannesburg - where they cut down trees and name streets after them.
PRWIN, with all due respect...
What part of "This project only relates to links in signatures" don't you understand?

The VHR's have nothing to do with pictures posted in a TR. We have nothing to do with watermarks on photos.
Not even where you host your pictures is of any concern to us.

We were given the rights by SANParks to sell the rights to posting a link in your signature. Many photographers took the chance to post a link to their sites with a small little "buy one" button. That is commercial.
Exactly that prompted us to look into accommodating such members.

Whether you have a link watermark or whatever does not phase us one bit so I suggest you take it up with the moderators. I'm no longer in a mods position so cannot help you.

I really did not think R 240.00 per year would have been an issue if it went towards conservation and the improvement of our parks.
Seems I was wrong.

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