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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:58 pm 
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JenB

Then can we get a clear picture as asked on the prev page by Son Godin and Imax. What is acceptable and what not from the Mods, as you say one thing and the Mods say something completely different. Very confusing I must say.


Last edited by PRWIN on Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:01 pm 
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squirrel_asc wrote:
The original post refers to links in signatures, not via posted photos.

The first one that actually understands.
Thank you Squirrel.

PRWIN, I'm not a mod. I cannot speak on their behalf.
I can only reply to you regarding this specific project.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:02 pm 
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JenB wrote:
PRWIN, with all due respect...
What part of "This project only relates to links in signatures" don't you understand?

The VHR's have nothing to do with pictures posted in a TR. We have nothing to do with watermarks on photos.
Not even where you host your pictures is of any concern to us.

We were given the rights by SANParks to sell the rights to posting a link in your signature. Many photographers took the chance to post a link to their sites with a small little "buy one" button. That is commercial.
Exactly that prompted us to look into accommodating such members.

Whether you have a link watermark or whatever does not phase us one bit so I suggest you take it up with the moderators. I'm no longer in a mods position so cannot help you.

I really did not think R 240.00 per year would have been an issue if it went towards conservation and the improvement of our parks.
Seems I was wrong.
DinkyBird wrote:
Hi PRWIN

PRWIN wrote:
Can a web site address be included on a photo as the photo is already a promotion tool for sanparks as per a copyright signature ...

No. You cannot included a website address on your photo. You obviously may copyright your photo, and protect your intellectual property as you are doing now by using your name "2014 PR Winnan", but not by using your website address on photos posted here on these forums.

Please see Rule # 17:
Quote:
17. You may not use any part of these forums to establish, promote, maintain or provide, or assist in establishing, promoting, maintaining or providing your own commercial services.


Should you wish to advertise your photo website, please see the first post on this topic as to how to go about this.



Jen Here is where PRWIN got told he cannot use a web address watermark or signature on a photo.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:14 pm 
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DrPhil, I do understand what you are saying but the VHR's are not privy to managing the forum.

Unfortunately off topic posts are tainting this project which we (the VHR's) honestly thought members would not have a problem with seeing that it would allow them to post commercial links in their signatures within the rules of the forum.

Please read the first post again?
We were only given the right to manage links in signatures, not links in posts, or watermarks on photos.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:16 pm 
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He was never told he couldn't use a watermark or a signature. Just that the watermark couldn't be a web address.

As his photos do not contain a web address we are at a loss on why this is an issue for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:22 pm 
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:doh:
'K then I'm at a loss too....

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:22 pm 
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Okay I think I got it.

This initiative is for links in sigs only. It's a new process and fundraising effort. Commercial and non commercial sites can be advertised for a fee.

Watermarks on pics are fine but not if they are a web address. This has been policy but maybe loosely enforced.

Mites can host pics where they want and mods don't care if mites click on a pic and it takes them to flicr, etc. the key word is the photo album or site cannot be directly advertised to entice people to visit.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:25 pm 
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saraf wrote:
He was never told he couldn't use a watermark or a signature. Just that the watermark couldn't be a web address.

As his photos do not contain a web address we are at a loss on why this is an issue for him.


Read the entire post before replying. I clearly stated a WEB ADDRESS in the form of watermark or signature on the photo.

DrPhil wrote:
Jen Here is where PRWIN got told he cannot use a web address watermark or signature on a photo.


DB told PRWIN clearly he is not allowed to do it so the mods are creating the confusion.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 19, 2014 4:42 pm 
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Thanks DrPhil

Okay lets see if I get this.

1) You can have a thumbnail or photo here as long as it does not contain a web address on it
2) It's alright if you click the thumbnail and you go to another site and there is a active or inactive web address on that site to a commercial site.(Note I say commercial site which include photobucket, flickr, and so on as they are commercial sites)
3) It is alright if I post a thumbnail on this site that has a link to my commercial website when clicked on the photo as long as the photo shown on the sanparks forum has no indication to such website.

:hmz:


Last edited by PRWIN on Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:24 am 
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Let me see if I get this. :hmz:

Please go to the first page of this topic and note the timeline of replies.

1. A Global Announcement was posted on Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:06 am.
No one can claim to have missed it because it was pinned as an announcement to each and every forum.

2. No one commented and on Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:11 pm a reminder was posted.

3. First reply came on Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:57 pm and it was processed immediately.

4. No further replies until a mod posted that the wheels were about to be set in motion, this was on Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:25 am.

5. 3 Mites took note and had questions. Steven posted that the script was run. That was on Fri Feb 28, 2014 8:34 pm.

6. The topic again went quiet until Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:21 am when a member highlighted and suddenly had a problem with rule 5.
Quote:
5. The link may not be promoted or included in posts.

This was exactly 6 weeks and 6 days after the first announcement was made.

I'm now going to make my own deduction based on the above.

We gave members 5 weeks and 2 days to understand and to voice their opinions about this project (before the script was run).
5 Members (from an active core of about 120) asked questions, of which I believe only one was affected. He was sorted in no time and has an active free link in his signature.

I'm asking myself: What sparked this huge debate after a day short of 7 weeks from the date of the first post?

The only reasonable answer I can find is that some members might have thought that they can side step this by posting links in their posts instead of supporting a fund raising effort by the VHR's.
Well, it makes sense because some got away with commercial links in their signatures before so why not in future?

Seems like I completely missed the mods' spot on gut feel!
My sincere apologies to the mods! :)

For the sake of transparency I will make the following suggestions.

1. Leave this project in place and allow only non active links to private websites, like watermarks on photos. Please remove links to all or any commercial sites because this is the first time that members may have such links and it is via this project. There is and has never been any other way.
If the mods and SANParks would agree, consider allowing all members who support this project on topic links in posts (as highlighted by PRWIN above) as long as it does not represent marketing or spamming.

2. Request the VHR's to withdraw this project.
Adjust the rules like they were before with the understanding that no, absolutely no commercial links will be tolerated again. No grey areas thus no matter how innocent a photo website seems, if there is any option to buy photos, it's commercial and has to be removed. (Those were the rules before this project saw the light of day.)

This project was started in good faith.
As I have proven to you, a reasonable time period was given before it went live and there were no comments from the current core of unhappy members. No one can claim that they were taken by surprise, it was a Global Announcement!

Mods, I suggest you take this to your chambers for review and lock this topic until it has been resolved.
Should you think it better to resolve it in any other way than my suggestions above, I'll support that.

Thanx.
:)

I'll leave it up to the mods and SANParks to decide......

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:22 am 
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JenB

I don't have a problem with the links been removed in the signatures.

The problem came when I was told what I can and cannot place on my photo , this brings me back to page 1 rule 5 (no links).

If you want to enforce this rule you can't as all photo's placed on the Sanpark Forum are breaking this rule with a direct or indirect link to a 2nd site.

To enforce this rule Sanparks will have to allow the forum members to be able to post directly onto this forum as done in photobucket, Flickr, Facebook and others ,so that their is no link to any other site directly or indirectly. Then rule no5 is being enforced.

At the moment it is not and can be used against a formite in the near future when he upsets some one as has happened through the years , then this rule could or would be used against that said formite.

All I,m asking if you make a rule pleas be sure you are able to go through with it and carry it out as per said Rule and not only half way or to the interpretation of a select few.


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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 20, 2014 9:09 am 
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JenB, all
Quote:
Mods, I suggest you take this to your chambers for review and lock this topic until it has been resolved.

We will do this. We will go through all the issues raised here during the next few days and come back with a resolution. Until then, we are going to lock the topic, as per your request.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:29 pm 
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Dear all

The rigidness of applying the rules to embedded website addresses used as copyright protection on photographs posted on these forums will be relaxed.

The moderators will take into account the value added to the forums by the person posting their photos which might contain an embedded www address. If it is clearly an attempt by a member to use these forums to advertise their photos, these posts will be removed; but members who have a long history of adding value, helping with bird ID topics and so on, will not be asked to adjust their photos. Nor will new members who join in the same spirit.

Any links to websites, both commercial and private will still fall under the Signature Links Rules. Members have never been able to post commercial links, now they can - for a small donation (fee) as per the opening post of this topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Thank you Dalene! :)

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 Post subject: Re: Paid links in Signatures - New VHR Project
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:32 pm 
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Sounds very fair to me.............let's start earing some fund raising money!!!! :dance:

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