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 Post subject: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:19 pm 
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{Moderator's Note: Split From here}

I don't think the question is that bad, really.

First, If you check online reservations, you can book for "Lion Sands Tinga (Luxury Lodge)" through the SANParks website. Not sure if this is the Lion Sands game reserve bordering Kruger, but I can completely understand why anyone who doesn't know Kruger, will deduce from this that Lion Sands is in Kruger. Furthermore, I can imagine that the distinction between "Kruger" and "Greater Kruger" might not be all that clear to a foreigner who is only starting to gather information for a trip.

Secondly, unlike Kruger, many parks in other countries go through actual seasons - winter and summer, not just a wet season and a dry season, one of which is a few degrees warmer than the other. I'm pretty sure that there are times when you will see next to nothing in some of the National Parks in the Northern hemisphere, so in that context his question would make perfect sense. Unless he made a study of the Low-veld climate, he couldn't be expected to know that the only signigicant difference between winter and summer is how much water is around, and perhaps a few degrees.

So it seems the OP received suspect information from others, who possibly have never been to Kruger either. Why can't we display some of the warmth and friendliness South Africans are supposedly famous for, (or at least be civil) and give him better information that he received before?


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 Post subject: Re: BEST TIME TO VISIT KRUGER PARK
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:24 pm 
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There is no such thing as 'greater Kruger'.

Kruger is an entity on its own.

The private facilities around it jump on its bandwagon.

You are either in Kruger 'proper' or not.

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 Post subject: Re: BEST TIME TO VISIT KRUGER PARK
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:32 pm 
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Bush Baptist wrote:
There is no such thing as 'greater Kruger'.

Google would disagree with you.

Sure, it's not an official "thing" and you won't find any signs anywhere saying "Welcome to Greater Kruger", but really, we all (or at least most :roll:) know that the bigger conservation area that includes KNP and the private reserves bordering it (Sabi Sands, Timbavati, Kapama, etc), where the fences have been removed to allow the animals to move freely from one reserve to the other, is referred to as the "Greater Kruger Area".

You can argue (perhaps correctly) that private facilities abuse the "Kruger" name, but that isn't the OP's fault.


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 Post subject: Re: BEST TIME TO VISIT KRUGER PARK
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:40 pm 
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OK. This is a discussion that's well worth having as long as its done in the spirit of the forums please.

Split from original topic here

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:10 pm 
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Some of these facilities adjoining Kruger permit shooting of the wildlife that strays into their property from Kruger.

I am sure Kruger would not approve of being lumped with them by a convenient name - for the others not Kruger.

"OP"?

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Last edited by Bush Baptist on Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:14 pm 
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No, officially there isn't a Greater Kruger but unless SANParks have trade-marked the name "Kruger" (and I don't think they can) then legally there is nothing to stop the private reserves using that term.

OP is internet abbreviation for Original Poster, BB

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:17 pm 
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Thanks saraf :thumbs_up:

So I am correct them. the others (ab)use the name of Kruger for their own benefit.

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:35 pm 
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As a matter of fact, KRUGER NATIONAL PARK / NASIONALE KRUGER WILDTUIN is registered as a trade mark in South Africa - as is SANPARKS etc. :)

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 1:52 pm 
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Ok, whatever. I don't have time for this. Have work to do.

I'm sorry I tried to help you understand how someone could possibly get confused and think Lion Sands is inside KNP :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:34 pm 
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As far as I know Lion Sands River lodge is in Kruger proper, or at least has the use of a private concession within the Kruger

"Lion Sands Kruger National Park is one of only seven private concessions in the Kruger National Park." http://www.lionsands.com/knpfactsheet.asp

and this map indicates that it is in Kruger proper, but on the Northern side of the Sabie River

http://www.safarimappers.com/area.aspx?lngareaid=5

In addition it is my understanding that areas bordering the Kruger, where fences have been removed follow strict and similar conservation policies as those found in the Kruger, to a point where Sanparks has the right to monitor and enforce conservation issues within a legally signed bipartite agreement

Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:02 pm 
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Concession Lodges - Kruger National Park'

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:35 pm 
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Whether we like it or not, whether it makes sense or not, whether it confuses people or not, whether some (ab)use it to ride on the KNP's coattails or not; the term "Greater Kruger" is in general use, and here to stay. Nothing we can do about it, rather just accept it and get used to it.

All the distinctions we regulars take for granted can be really confusing to the first-time visitor trying to make sense of things. For instance:

-National Park / Private Reserve / Contractual National Park / Concession;

-Rest camp / bush camp / bushveld camp / trails camp / private camp / game lodge / bush lodge / bush villa / tented camp / tented lodge / tree lodge / river lodge / sleep-out / star beds / sky beds / whatever-else-the-marketing-guys-can-come-up-with

And so forth, and so forth. You get the idea.

You get private lodges on private land, which land may or may not be part of a private nature reserve, which land then may or may not be part of an association of private nature reserves. Then you get private lodges on private land, which land at the very same time is also a Contractual National Park, where SANParks has some say on certain policy matters, and some responsibilities (e.g. roads, anti-poaching). The Makuleke "concession", which of course is not a concession, is a good example. On top of that you get private lodges, run on the same lines as private lodges on private land, but located in exclusive concessions within the boundaries of a National Park. I’m not even going to mention provincial nature reserves, National Parks which are not run by SANParks, community reserves, private reserves that in reality are hunting farms, game farms, community lodges within national parks located on successful land claims, etc. etc.

As far as the guest experience goes, these distinctions actually do matter, yet they are often not emphasized, or even ignored, by travel agents, marketing folks and even the lodges themselves. Good luck trying to work it all out if you are planning your first visit. Even most of the maps you find online or in brochures only serve to confuse matters. They often do not distinguish clearly between NPs and private reserves, they get the boundaries badly wrong, they are not up-to-date, and lodges are placed all over the map, sometimes many miles from where they actually are.

Tinga is a perfect example of how confusing it can get. There is a concession in Kruger called Jakkalsbessie, the northern boundary of which is formed by the Sabi River. There are two lodges in this concession, Tinga Narina and Tinga Legends. On the other side of the river lies the farm Kingston, which is part of the Sabi-Sand Reserve. In Afrikaans it is called the Sabi Sand Wildtuin. Many use the word wildtuin as a synonym for national park, one often hears the KNP called simply “die wildtuin”. Another recipe for confusion. Now the farm (which term is confusing in itself to non-South Africans) Kingston is commercially known as Lion Sands, with three lodges on the property: Lion Sands River Lodge, Lion Sands Ivory Lodge and Lion Sands 1933 Lodge.

Tinga used to be an independent private game reserve, albeit located on a concession within the KNP. At some point they made the commercially sensible decision to join hands with their neighbors directly across the river and market their lodges together. Tinga Narina and Tinga Legends thus became Lion Sands Tinga Narina and Lion Sands Tinga Legends. The result is that Lion Sands now offers its guests five lodges, of which three are located on private land in a private game reserve, and the remaining two within the boundaries of the KNP, but in an exclusive concession.

How on earth is the average casual tourist supposed to know all this, let alone how it works and what implications it has for the game viewing experience?

One other thing:

In view of the above, it would be appreciated if the moderators would go easy on enforcing the restrictions on discussing anything outside the SANParks boundaries.

One the one hand, it is not really helpful when people asking for advice get answers such as “that’s not a SANParks rest camp. You are not allowed to mention it here!”.

One the other hand, it is actually in SANParks' commercial interest to allow at least some discussion of alleged “competitors”. There are tourists who visit both private reserves and national parks in one trip, and need advice and help with their itineraries. Such people should be encouraged, not alienated. Then there are the private lodges that lease concessions in national parks. SANParks has a vested interest in their commercial success, as some of the money made flows into SANParks coffers. I do not see why these lodges cannot be mentioned, let alone discussed. Such limitations just pushes people into the arms of other fora where such restrictions do not exists.

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Just googled it.

Lion Sands is NOT in Kruger, for those who are pedantic like me.

If not, it is in 'greater Kruger'.

JR has a good point.

It looks like a groot gemors (mess up) designed to foncuse?

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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 3:59 pm 
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andrew1nesbitt wrote:
As far as I know Lion Sands River lodge is in Kruger proper, or at least has the use of a private concession within the Kruger.

"Lion Sands Kruger National Park is one of only seven private concessions in the Kruger National Park."

and this map indicates that it is in Kruger proper, but on the Northern side of the Sabie River


No offense, Andrew, but you have just given a perfect example of how people get confused.

See also my previous post, but no, Lion Sands River Lodge is not in Kruger proper. It is on the farm Kingston, part of the private Sabi Sand Reserve. The northern bank of the Sabi River is not in the KNP.

andrew1nesbitt wrote:
In addition it is my understanding that areas bordering the Kruger, where fences have been removed follow strict and similar conservation policies as those found in the Kruger, to a point where Sanparks has the right to monitor and enforce conservation issues within a legally signed bipartite agreement
No, the private game reserves are free to set their own conservation policies, and they do. These policies also differ materially. For example, hunting is common in private reserves, but the policies vary widely between the reserves, as well as over time. Of those that allow trophy hunting, some have halted the hunting of big cats, for example. Then you get land owner hunting quotas, hunting for rations, etc. SANParks does not have any monitoring or enforcement rights. The law is (perhaps, hopefully) upheld by the provincial authorities of the provinces in which the private reserves are located. Helpfully, the Mpumalanga/Limpopo border cuts right through several of these private reserves.

The Makukele Contractual National Park is a different story. There is a contract between the landowners and SANParks, hence the term Contractual National Park. It is really fiendishly complicated, and the parties involved do not really see eye-to-eye, but the area concerned is officially part of the Kruger National Park. However, SANParks only has a limited say, and limited responsibilities. Furthermore, the contract stipulates that once the Makuleke community has the capacity and ability to take fully charge, they may do so. When that happens, SANParks will be completely out of the game.

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: What is Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:00 pm 
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Bush Baptist wrote:
It looks like a groot gemors (mess up) designed to foncuse?
:mrgreen:

Johan


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