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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:55 am
Posts: 145
Location: Redmond,WA USA
23 hours for me with a stopover
Weep for me for I am in cattle class :cry:
Business class cost almost $8000(85000R)

Is it worth it?
Heck,yeah

ETA- You have to play the game with SAA.
The earlier you book,the better the price.Very early in fact as the cheaper seats go fast
Same with a rental car

Hoping for Mango or Kululu to expand their routes

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2/22/14 Twee Riveren
2/23 Nossob
2/24-25 KTC
2/25-27 Kieliekrankie
2/27-28 Grootkolk
3/1 Nossob
3/2 Twee Riveren
3/4 Mopani
3/5-7 Letaba
3/7-9 Lower Sabie
3/9-12 Biyamiti
3/13 Berg en Dal


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 10:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:55 am
Posts: 145
Location: Redmond,WA USA
Yeah,people who can afford business class generally can afford any type of lodging
Honestly even if I won the lottery I still think I would go on doing what I am doing
Not comfortable being waited on
I would just stay longer in the park

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2/22/14 Twee Riveren
2/23 Nossob
2/24-25 KTC
2/25-27 Kieliekrankie
2/27-28 Grootkolk
3/1 Nossob
3/2 Twee Riveren
3/4 Mopani
3/5-7 Letaba
3/7-9 Lower Sabie
3/9-12 Biyamiti
3/13 Berg en Dal


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:14 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:34 pm
Posts: 566
Xankanka wrote:
Basic business class from uk is about 3 times the cost of the 'cattle' class, about SAR 42000. Proper business class is unmentionable.
The other week I booked a ticket AMS-LHR-JNB-LHR-AMS with BA in Club World (full flatbed business), for €1,681.51, that's R 24,502.64.

I prefer Turkish Airlines (best overall business class product), but BA offered the best deal this time. It pays to shop around.

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:17 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:34 pm
Posts: 566
pedro maia wrote:
I think I´m not missing any cost and it confirms my idea, the cost of a private lodge vs the cost of staying at KNP is nearly the double, at least for a family like mine and for the period of time we will be staying.
No, I don't thinks you are missing much, but YMMV with circumstances. The calculation definitely works out differently for a single traveler.

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:11 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Canada - West Coast - Victoria
Lepardfan wrote:
WOW 85k for a plane ticket....

I guess then accommodation and car rental rates shouldn't be a issue.


I wish my airfare was that low, try R128 000 and 49 hours from the time we leave our door to the time we arrive at Kruger.... and we are crazy enough to do it every year :tongue:


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:34 pm
Posts: 566
zivvy&muffin wrote:
A good guide can really teach us a lot over 4 or 5 days.
Yeah, a good one can. A bad one can talk an amazing amount of nonsense. The standard of guiding at private lodges has declined precipitously over the past decades. When private lodges were few and far between, the guides were mostly somewhat eccentric characters, often with little formal schooling, who had grown up barefoot in the bush. They knew their stuff. Now bush schools are churning out a steady stream of pimple-faced FGASA1 graduates of the talking parrot variety. They just can't shut up. As soon as the vehicle comes to a stop they open their mouth: "an impala has four legs, two ears and one tail, bla bla bla bla bla". The thing I like most about driving myself is the SILENCE.

zivvy&muffin wrote:
The downsides tend to be overall cost and being 'stuck' on a game-viewing vehicle with other guests with a 5 minute attention span.
Yeah, and having to listen to somebody behind you relating the entire history of psychiatric illness in his family, which just happens to be very extensive.

The obvious solution here is called "sole use of vehicle" but that comes at a cost and is not always available. The alternative is being a frequent and valued guest, allowing strings to be pulled.

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:37 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Posts: 566
judik wrote:
Quote:
Just as an example, Singita Lebombo, which is in a concession in the KNP proper, has, off the top of my head, 132 kms of roads on 10,000 hectares or so. That's more than you can drive in a couple of days.

That's not a budget lodge is it?
No it is most certainly not! It is just as certainly not value for money either, in my opinion.

judik wrote:
Quote:
yes, you get plenty of canned line-'m-up lodges, but that's not true of all. Matter of picking carefully. Some have exclusive traversing, you won't see another vehicle all day.

Again,not budget lodges than are cheaper than KNP which I believe has been a point of some posters.
You would be surprised. One of the lodges mentioned earlier has the exclusive use of whole farm, and a maximum of two vehicles out. Another traverses an area so big that you very rarely encounter another vehicle. In both instances they have to work hard to find game.

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:41 pm 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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yoda wrote:
Don't entirely agree with that. I spent 6 nights 7 days in Kruger in December. (Skukuza, Satara, Lower Sabie) And yes, I did a lot of driving, but also saw a fair amount of the south of reserve.
I think we almost agree. To see more than a fair amount, a week in the south, a week in the center and a week in the north is about right.

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:48 pm 
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Lepardfan wrote:
That is not really that much driving, and I can't think that 132km's will take one days to drive....
Game drives at private lodges proceed slowly and with lots of stops. I usually record them on a GPS and it is pretty rare to exceed 20 kms in a drive, maybe 30 on rare occasions when driving to a sighting called in at the other end of the reserve. So, with two drives a day, it would take over three days to cover 132 km.

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:17 am
Posts: 137
Location: Pretoria
johanrebel wrote:
First of all, there is only one of me. I almost always visit alone, so there is nobody to share the costs of the vehicle, accommodation, etc. (Yes, almost all private lodges charge a single supplement, but that's waived for me as a repeat or long stay guest. I usually get an extra discount on top of that as well.)

Secondly, I rent a vehicle with a view. Usually end up with a Kia Sportage, Nissan X-Trail, that kind of thing. They don't come cheap.

Thirdly, when I self-drive, I often cover 200+ km a day. Long gone are the days when gas was R3 a liter.

Fourth, I don't self-cater.

Fifth, I factor in the cost of a night drive. They are included at private lodges, and when I used to stay in Kruger I went on every single night drive I could, without fail. I remember when they cost R25.

Sixth, I pay non-resident conservation fees.

Johan

Ok, as I said, there is a large difference in how we do things.

Very few people go to KNP (Or any holiday, for that matter) alone. You are very fortunate to have been able to get the single supplement waived. This alone, explains how you can visit a private lodge at KNP prices. It wasn't something I even considered, given that it is not the norm at all.

We have done 200+ km a day, and hated it. The more we go, the less we drive. I'm sure you see more than us on the average day, but that's ok. We'd rather spend an hour parked at a sighting than race around trying to see more. One of my best "game drives" (and I use the term loosely!) was the morning we spend 3 hours parked on the Shingwedzi causeway :tongue: . Hence the fact that we can go an entire week in Kruger on one tank of fuel. :)

We have done night drives, but we don't really plan to repeat it. Someone else here mentioned the frustration of being on a vehicle with other guests with 5 min attention spans... that is simply not how we want to do things. The only game drives we've actually enjoyed, were when we were on a specialized photographic safari, and when we were lucky enough to be the only guests on the vehicle, and thus able to call the shots.

Thanks for the explanation, anyway. At least now it makes sense to me how you manage to stay at a private lodge at Kruger prices...


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:54 pm
Posts: 146
Location: Noordheuwel Krugersdorp
I wish my airfare was that low, try R128 000 and 49 hours from the time we leave our door to the time we arrive at Kruger.... and we are crazy enough to do it every year :tongue:[/quote]

Hahaha Shutterbug, I can have a very very loooong holiday in Kruger for R128k :mrgreen:

But at least it is a good kind of crazy :dance:

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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:26 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
johanrebel wrote:
pedro maia wrote:
I think I´m not missing any cost and it confirms my idea, the cost of a private lodge vs the cost of staying at KNP is nearly the double, at least for a family like mine and for the period of time we will be staying.
No, I don't thinks you are missing much, but YMMV with circumstances. The calculation definitely works out differently for a single traveler.
Johan


It´s a bit of a surprise to me but you´re right.

For a single person spending 4 nights in KNP in a bungalow with 1 bedroom room, the price can be around ZAR 1000 per night, so it would be ZAR 4000, eating everyday and every meal at camp restaurants the cost can be around ZAR 1500 (total), the conservation fee would cost ZAR 1000, renting a KIA Sportage for the whole time costs ZAR 6100 and if we drive 500km I think we could spend around ZAR 500 on fuel, so the total would be ZAR 13.100.

At the lodge we are going, the minimum price per single person per night is ZAR 2600, so 4 nights cost ZAR 10.400, lets add ZAR 300 for drinks, the road transfer from KMIA airport for 1 person costs ZAR 2.000 and ZAR 400 for tips and the total cost is also ZAR 13.100.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:28 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 4:54 pm
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Location: Noordheuwel Krugersdorp
pedro maia wrote:
johanrebel wrote:
pedro maia wrote:
I think I´m not missing any cost and it confirms my idea, the cost of a private lodge vs the cost of staying at KNP is nearly the double, at least for a family like mine and for the period of time we will be staying.
No, I don't thinks you are missing much, but YMMV with circumstances. The calculation definitely works out differently for a single traveler.
Johan


It´s a bit of a surprise to me but you´re right.

For a single person spending 4 nights in KNP in a bungalow with 1 bedroom room, the price can be around ZAR 1000 per night, so it would be ZAR 4000, eating everyday and every meal at camp restaurants the cost can be around ZAR 1500 (total), the conservation fee would cost ZAR 1000, renting a KIA Sportage for the whole time costs ZAR 6100 and if we drive 500km I think we could spend around ZAR 500 on fuel, so the total would be ZAR 13.100.

At the lodge we are going, the minimum price per single person per night is ZAR 2600, so 4 nights cost ZAR 10.400, lets add ZAR 300 for drinks, the road transfer from KMIA airport for 1 person costs ZAR 2.000 and ZAR 400 for tips and the total cost is also ZAR 13.100.


pedro maia, is this calculation for yoursefl?

do you travel alone? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 5:56 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 3:26 pm
Posts: 100
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Lepardfan wrote:
pedro maia, is this calculation for yoursefl?

do you travel alone? :D


No I travel with my family, my numbers are in the previous page of this thread and for the family it would be much cheaper to go to KNP, I just made a calculation for a trip like mine but for one one person and for my surprise it turned out that johanrebel was right, the cost of the private lodge where I´m going and the cost of KNP are similar.


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 Post subject: Re: Cost to visit KNP
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:45 pm 
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Senior Virtual Ranger
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:11 pm
Posts: 1007
Location: Here...there, somewhere, where's my GPS?
There is one price item that is very difficult to measure when visiting the KNP, that is the actual value of the KNP experience. How do you measure the worth of being in the KNP? I think most of the places you can stay outside of the fence try to replicate the feeling of being in the bush, by being inside a small nature reserve, but it just doesn't feel the same.

This is why it is difficult to discuss the cost and value of the KNP. Another point is that every persons idea of value for money is different. In this thread we already have some interesting numbers. From R100 000 for a KNP holiday to R5000, and sometimes the lower amount is the most complained about.

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