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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:52 pm 
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Has anyone come across the grumpy elephant since the incident on Monday?

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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:45 pm 
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We encountered a very angry Ellie in Musth on the S118 or S119 on Friday. We got stuck behind him for 45 min cause he refused to move off the road. We kept our distance and made no move to push him or get past him but he was still very aggressive and a few time we had to hit reverse cause he was flapping and storming in our direction but we gave way and he went back to his merry stomp along. At one stage a game viewing vehicle came up the opposite side of the road and caught him by surprise and they had to give way very fast.

I was actually looking at the pics today and saying to a friend I swear it was the same Ellie. It has similar sized tusks and seems to have a similar bump on the end on his trunk and nick his ear and I wondered if there was a chance it was the same Ellie.

Let me find the pic and post, maybe some recognizes him. I'm not very good at telling the difference between one and the other but maybe someone else is.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:10 am 
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I just heard from a friend of mine that the Daily Mail in the UK has published an Article stating that the reason for the attack was that the Ellie has a Tooth abscess. Has anyone heard anything about this cause I can't seem to find it in the local stories.

Is that possible? *big eyes*

Did I miss a link here to this story?


Last edited by Trentonskeeper on Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:37 am 
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I think I recall someone just mentioning it as a possible cause as there was a bit of blood on the door where its tooth went in.
Plus I think it has been seen in cases in the past where an aggressive ellie has had to be put down and it was found to be the case.
but unless the ellie were to be examined I don't think anyone can be sure.
Of course he might have been in musth which can also make them very unpredictable and aggressive.

(Of course unless I have also missed something somewhere!) :hmz:

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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:47 am 
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I'm a strong worded person Bert, I don’t walk circles around a bush. :tongue:

For an elephant with a sore tooth his tusks worked very well. What I'm trying to say is when you see an elephant is in a gaga mood, you don’t go creep up on him, you give it space. Have this person ever heard of 1st gear or reverse? To sit there and wait till the elephant is on top of you is stupid, especially with the size of that boy. I don’t care if an elephant is flapping his ears or trumpeting or lazily eating a bundle of grass next to the road, you do not go and camp next to him. It is and will stay an animal and it is unpredictable, with size to match. You stay away from him and your car will stay on it's wheels.

Like Scipio said, it's not a zoo, and there is few people that I know that spended so much time with elephants as he did, and he give them more than a couple of meters to play with. Just give the animal some space for heavens sake! :roll: Hopefully this will be a reminder to all that read this forum, you are in their territory, and you will come second, no matter what type of animal you deal with....


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:41 pm 
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alleycat wrote:
unfortunate incidant, however I always believed that it was just a matter of time.

The reason why I am posting is because i feel quite strongly that Sanparks could do alot to educate visitors by handing out a 1 pager at the gates. Many are in hire cars and visiting for the first time and really dont know how to read the signs of aggression/irratation in the big 5.



They do actually alleycat............have you never read your permit, given to day and overnight visitors.
(The green leaflet that accompanies the printed permit, has all the do's and don'ts.) :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Crested Val wrote:
(The green leaflet that accompanies the printed permit, has all the do's and don'ts.) :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:
and even a whole section on how to behave around elephants.

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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Thanks Crested Val,

I do recall a rules and regs list, however on a recent trip to a non Sanparks big 5 reserve there is a whole section dedicated to "safe viewing of elephants". They have had the same incidant in the past year.

This information has 7 points under what to do and look out for including what to do when they're in the road, it specifically says "if an E is walking towards you DO NOT pull over to the side of the road and allow the E to pass as this is when they may turn their attention to the car....", it also has information on Musth, how to recognise it and what effects this has on their behaviour, as well as signs of irratation, resting trunk on tusks, crossing their legs, swinging front leg, smelling trunk held high, fluid from glands from female E's and many more points.
As the biggest animal we need to respect in the park i recall a couple of lines about musth, could be wrong, still believe that first time self drivers need more info.
I also believe that Elephants are getting more irritated, maybe its because of all the activity.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:13 pm 
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It really saddens me when I read newspaper speculations about "a tooth abscess" - because it usually ends up as a justification to put an ellie to sleep.

Have you ever seen an ellie dentist in Kruger? Each and every ellie will at various stages during it's lifetime have to deal with tooth problems, so does hippo, rhino, lions, etc. As we all know a toothache is not a pleasant experience at the best of times - imagine chomping down on.........hitting that nerve at just the right angle. Surely this happens every day somewhere in the park, now imagine you are the dentist in plain sight just ten meters away :wink:

Unfortunately there are way too many people that visit Kruger that do not know the difference between a wildlife conservation area and a holiday resort. And yes, I do know that accidents can and will happen - especially in dense bush :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:18 pm 
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People should check the facts before jumping to conclusions, a witness said the order of events was not as stated in these posts and the unfortunate victims may have been unable to avoid this troubled ellie.

These quotes are from the report from a newspaper in Britain quoting the SA resident who witnessed the event and from the British family members concerned.

"Eyewitness Vasti Fourie, who filmed the attack, said: ‘It happened so quickly. I’ve never seen anything like this and I’m sure they haven’t either.’"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... ZYZhrkRpjc


http://www.metro.co.uk/news/918095-ragi ... uth-africa

As a frequent visitor to Kruger I am well aware what to look out for but much has come from experience and observation of the signs usually given when animals are nervous about our proximity to their environment.


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:43 pm 
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Hi all.

A lot of postings all over the web about this accident. I am actually the guy with the green cap in the pictures. I was follwing the bull for over ten minutes on the road behind him. We were the first to spot him. He was not in musth, but we stayed between 50 and 100m behind. The first car that got punctured was the American guy. He could and should have reversed. When we and a SA couple rescued the the british couple out of their car. We could hear their story, because no one had seen this happening. Thje bull came around the corner towards them and took them by surprise. They pulled over to the side of the road, but were to late to reverse....


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Here's another one that happened recently in Kruger



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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:32 pm 
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A teenager bull showing of
Met them a few times :whistle:
And gave them space...
Cant say the same for the maker of the video :wall:

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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:10 pm 
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AndreaB wrote:
The guy in that video was saying, "yeah, yeah, want do you want me to do you stupid animal, I"ve had enough now, I'm off....."

Clearly demonstrates that he had no clue how to behave around elephants and that educating tourists especially is an absolute must!


Thanks for the translation


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 Post subject: Re: Elephant vs. Car
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:48 am 
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After many, many self drive trips to parks all over southern Africa in the last 13 years and several weeks spent living inside Hwange National Park, it is only now in the last year or so that I have started to feel more comfortable encountering elephants. This has only come with time and experience and getting to know the subtle (and not so subtle) body language/behaviour of these amazing animals. With this better knowledge we haven't become complacent or 'cocky' - rather we have become more cautious and more observant.
Nevertheless, there are times when we have come out of a gully or around a bend on a narrow dirt road to suddenly find ourselves confronted with ellies in very close proximity. That is when one needs to assess the situation in seconds and make the right decision. Easier said than done!

I think it would be much more effective to have the information about elephants which is on the entry permit, printed in large print on a simple white A4 sheet of paper with a very bold heading like: IMPORTANT INFORMATION - PLEASE READ BEFORE ENTERING PARK!!! A graphic of an elephant pushing a car over underneath the heading (that grabs the attention) and then the 'rules' or suggestions for visitors.

Everyone is excited to get into the park, like NOW!, and often don't take the time to read the permits :slap: This is just human nature.

If these were printed in the main languages of visitors, it would not be too onerous for reception staff to hand over the appropriate translation. I firmly believe that this would make more people stop and think seriously about their interaction with elephants and go a long way to educate park visitors more effectively - just saying :wink:

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