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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:21 pm 
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A BAZOOKA water pistol! :thumbs_up:

But these guys are intelligent. They will soon learn how far that can reach ... and sit 1 meter higher up in the trees when it appears. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:45 am 
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I have adopted a policy myself whereby, if I see a tourist feeding any animals, or bird or littering, or getting out of their vehicle, even though I don't have a badge or am a ranger, I do make myself heard to these offenders.
I usually get verbal abuse (which I can't even repeat -so disgusting), but, I think if each of us who knows the consequences can do their bit, it should help a bit.
I mean, we are spread all over the park at various times visiting the park and we can be the ears and eyes for the rangers and Kruger.
I just need more input on what to say in certain instances.
My line usually if I see someone out of their vehicle where they are not supposed to be outside their vehicle is "excuse me, sir, madam, did you know that you are NOT allowed to get out of your vehicle in the KNP?"
I usually also add, 'it is endangering yourself, the people in your car, but mostly, you are disrupting the viewing for those of us wanting to see the animals in their natural environment and if you are leaning out of your vehicle, the animal leaves and therefore you spoil it for everyone else".

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:01 pm 
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I usually ask folk if they have read the gate leaflet. If they say yes, I tell them to read it again because...... If they say no, I tell them it is important to do so because they would have discovered that they must not..... ..

Here at Malelane camp I am making sure that I see each group as soon after their arrival as possible and tell them about the problem with monkeys, and advise them to use the few baboon-prrof bins we have rather than the others, keep all food securely out of sight/in cupboards, and not to feed the birds as that also encourages the monkeys.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:48 pm 
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ecojunkie wrote:
and not to feed the birds as that also encourages the monkeys.


Strangely some people do not seem to understand this - in fact someone on the forum questioned my logic when I wrote similarly .

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:46 pm 
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I do explain that the monkeys are clever enough to watch the birds and if they see them flocking somewhere they immediately know there is food about!

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Throughout the ages, it has been proved that shooting so called monkeys or baboons does not stop them raiding.
So why does anyone even contemplate it especially considering the permanent damage caused to troop structures in the long term?
I repeatedly get people telling that they shoot out of anger, not because it does any good.
And yet these same people pride themselves on being rational thinkers....
Shooting baboons and monkeys is creating dysfunctional social troops.

Pellet guns are not an answer either.

If you use a catapult, one can use a piece of soft wood much like the cork you find in wine bottles - plenty of those around in camps as you all know.

A hosepipe is great too and so is banging on a pot and making a noise that as akin to expressing the equivalent of a baboon display (strong body language, loud shouting - a determined message that this is your territory.

One problem is that we need to be consistent.
You can't invite monkeys and baboons one day then expect them not to come back the next.

The person who said they were relieved that the problem was being dealt with, well I can't help but answer, that you need to accept that wild animals are not the problem.
People are.

Take responsibility and act accordingly.
Wild primates invade our space because of human intervention.
Take the attraction away and they have no reason to visit or steal.

"Passing the buck" - redirected aggression - is a common primate behaviour however.
And us humans are primates too, being guilty of this ourselves all too often.

Should we not try to be aware of this and look to ourselves for solutions that don't involve killing other species while our own continues to breed without challenge? Just saying....:-)


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:27 pm 
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Wildhearted, again you have brought some pertinent points into the discussion. :thumbs_up: We have to understand that primates have a system of symbols of their own. How they interpret our behaviour is based on their own system, not ours.

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 Post subject: Re: "Ketties" & Monkeys
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Can someone please explain something to me.

We have National Parks - established to conserve our natural heritage, part of which are the animals that live in the area.
And the way I understand it, it is all the animals in the area.
Each one is interdependent on the next in the food chain and circle of life.
Right?

Along comes man - who wants to now spend a night in these areas, so fenced off camps are built.
Or picnic areas so man can get out his car and enjoy a meal.

Fine, fences keep out certain animals - purely because they cannot walk through the fence.

The part I do not understand is, how does one explain to a monkey for eg, that he is in a conservation area yes, he and his fellow creatures actually come first in this area - but there are certain places man has decided he wants to be, so monkey - you keep away.
You are not welcome in those areas.

I abhor the feeding of animals - it is unnatural apart from the consequences eventually suffered by the creatures.
But I do not understand how we humans can visit National Parks and have certain 'expectations' from animals that they must not come into 'our' camp, or cottage etc.
I am not just talking about monkeys here - I mean ants, bugs, mozzies, rats, the works.
They are all vital to the ecology but man decides that some are a nuisance to his comfort, and they must not be in 'his area'.

This puzzles me a LOT!

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 Post subject: Re: "Ketties" & Monkeys
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:56 pm 
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DB :thumbs_up: - and that is why the very next person who tells me that they are only feeding the birds and not the monkeys is going to have to explain to me how I can also communicate with the monkeys!

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 Post subject: Re: "Ketties" & Monkeys
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Every question has a simple answer DB.

The scorpion in the chalet at 2R was escorted out, the bat was endured, the geckos at Grootkolk were funny after the original skriks.
I agree, we need to be tolerant to what lives there after we have gone.
To Doom or not to Doom, that is the question.

When I was in Baviaanskloof, all the baboons ran away from us (we were not THAT ugly).
They were obviously not hand fed.
Baboons and monkeys have been feeding themselves for centuries.
It is NOT NATURAL for monkeys to come into your camp while you are there.
They have been lured there by hand feeders.
It is not the monkey's presence that is the problem - I am happy with that - but it is his intentions based on being fed in the past.
Also what do the tribal people who live in those areas do?

Because of people thinking it is 'cute' to feed the animals (& birds EJ - I agree with you) they have unnatural expectations and have developed cunning tactics to get food that was not intended for them.
I saw it in November at Mlondozi and was a victim of it at the lookout site near Olifants.
I also saw them run into the shop at Letaba and steal human food.

Clearly humans are to blame, but there is nothing I can do to reverse it, but if you want to stand by and watch your food supply being plundered in front of your eyes that is your prerogative, but my catty, with some nearby shots, sends a message that I am going to defend mine.

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 Post subject: Monkeys in the Camps
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:02 pm 
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I was in Skukuza last week and packed all my meat and stuff in the freezer and fridge.
About an hour later I heard a huge crash and monkeys raided the fridge stealing, mealies , meat and other items.
They also broke a few plates in the process.

I have been to Kruger for about 12 years but it seems the monkeys at Skukuza are becoming pests .


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys in the Camps
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:30 pm 
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Yes we had the same at Berg en Dal . I was lucky ,but the poor camper next to us lost everything .The monkeys can even unzipp a tent.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys in the Camps
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:40 pm 
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We were at Satara in early December 2009 and there is a monkey problem there, too.
I saw them empty someone's fridge and cupboards.

There is a notice, in small print, on the door of the chalet, warning people of the monkeys.
Problem is that not everyone will read (or understand) the notice.
As I said in another post, the staff at Reception should verbally warn people about the monkeys when they hand them their keys and explain how to prevent "robberies".
I don't think everyone realises how clever and quick the monkeys are.

We put luggage straps around the fridge and freezer and then turn them around, so the monkeys can't open the doors.
Putting a chair in front of the fridge door does not work - they have discovered how to move the chair!
All our other food, drinks etc. is kept in black plastic boxes in the chalet bedroom (not much space, but saves losses).

We have also had monkey problems at various picnic sites - we keep someone on watch when cooking breakfast, but even so have had things snatched by a speedy monkey in a split second.
I have even had a vervet monkey bare its teeth at me - would be terrifying/dangerous for a small child.

The unpalatable solution is probably to shoot a couple every now and again.
Some visitors don't like this solution in a Game Reserve but don't realise that the problem was probably started by people leaving scraps for the monkeys/birds.

It is a "Catch 22" for the KNP management - whatever they do or don't do will be unpopular with someone.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys in the Camps
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 4:55 pm 
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luggage straps :thumbs_up:

Monkeys and birds and clever enough to understand where humans eat and stay you might find food.
If they did not get fed (have never seen anybody feeding a monkey or baboon in camp.
But suppose it does happen) there are always trash cans, leftovers and the restaurants etc.
If SANparks does take out a group of monkeys pestering a camp i believe it will only be a matter of time before another group moves in.

After all, its a great food source and any group of monkeys would like to "own" the place.
And this is on the website under warnings on the Kruger home page
Quote:
Monkeys, Baboons and Bushbuck
Monkeys, baboons and tame bushbuck are very cute and can be entertaining for young and old, BUT PLEASE DO NOT FEED THEM.
Remember that by feeding them, you are signing their death warrant, as they become aggressive and may have to be destroyed.
By feeding these animals you do not only aggravate the situation but you also make these animals lazy and they become dependent on this food supply.
The same applies to animals you may encounter along the fences of the camps in KNP, including Hyaena.
Do not throw food to them or attempt to touch or tease them.

Before going out in the morning in search of animals please make sure that you have put all foodstuffs securely away.
Remember that these monkeys and baboons have learnt to open up fridge doors and cupboards.


Know that the new bungalows at Lower Sabie has a steel grid in front of the cupboards which can be locked with a padlock and key (monkey proof)
Same kinda grid door in front of the fridge

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys in the Camps
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:21 pm 
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Note that feeding birds also contributes to the problem , even if there are no monkeys obviously visible to the eye , the message gets sent via the bush telegraph (sounds , animal movements and behavioural patterns) that food is readily available .

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KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.


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