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 Post subject: Re: Scavanging Baboons
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:56 am 
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Virtual Ranger
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 448
Location: SA
At nkuhlu I chase lots of people away on a weekly basis for feeding the animals.
I have a policy of talk once, second time you go.
My staff including myself has been verbally abused by lots of people in the past when we try to "educate" them on reading their entrance permits, as well as the signs around the park that says do not feed the animals.
December last year I have taken away 5 of my eight dustbins, which are all animal proof.
Never had a problem with baboons yet. They will walk around on the perimeter, but wont come closer.
Sad truth is that we also had to shoot and kill a few baboons before they got the message.
All because humans think its cute to feed them and take a picture doing so.
Now Im still battling with vervets, and just as we are seemingly winning the battle, an idiot comes and feeds them. The whole circle starts all over again.

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 Post subject: Re: Scavanging Baboons
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 1:12 pm 
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Virtual Ranger
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Location: Mkuze, KZN
Here in my part of the world the dustbins are almot human proof in our attempt to baboon proof them. Each is in a cadge with the hinged top of the bin attached on a chain to the heavy lid of the cadge - you need two hands to open the bin and keep it open and unlocked. The lid is permanently locked with one of those door latches (not the slide type but the propper door type) where the moment the top closes the latch locks too. This requires that the latch lock be held open whilst the heavy lid is lifted. So far this is all that seems to be working.

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 Post subject: Re: Scavanging Baboons
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:42 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 5:12 pm
Posts: 141
Location: Lidgetton
As a lover of LS and tent No16 I watched recently with some amusement and huge trepidation how baboons got into tent No 17.
There is always a lookout who sits in a tall tree near the fence.
6 baboons who had just emptied the bins came onto the deck at No17 as I was lounging on mine,
I heard them, stood up and shouted looked threatening but to no avail they just stared at me with absolute disdain.
A big male stood up against the cupboard which contains the fridge(now behind wrought iron gates) and tried to rip the gates off the hinges(they have been reinforced with metal plates).
No luck so he jumped onto the cupboard and started to rip at the velcro window(now reinforced with wire thread) until he had pulled the wire loose and entered the tent followed by his buddies.
I had in the mean time phoned the office and was waiting for the staff.
All of a sudden the lookout started barking he had seen the guard with his rifle running down the fence line in a split second the baboons left No17 came onto my deck and my heart just stopped, I picked up the ashtray and took aim but they just casually used my deck to jump over the electric fence and ran away.
I stood looking at my hand with the ashtray and just giggled hysterically, what the hell was I going to do with a ashtray against 6 fully grown baboons!!!
I must add the staff were unstinting in their efforts to stop the baboons but they just change the times at which they raid and then run away.
Not going to stop me going to No16 either!!.

Bornfree.

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 Post subject: Re: Are Baboons Shy, Ignorant or Lazy?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:38 pm
Posts: 130
Location: Sydney and southern Africa
Jors wrote:
A big part of baboon dominant behaviour is in the face/eyes. By turning their faces away from you they avoid confrontation and is a form of submissive behaviour. Next time you see monkeys or baboons, try and make eye contact and then open your eyes wide, watch the reaction. This is aggressive behaviour from your side, and will either evoke visible aggression or submissive behaviour.


Jors I've tried that with vervets and go two reactions. The first time the monkey ran off, but the second time it (a male) lay back, reclining and resting on one elbow (and I'm not making this up) and became quite... err... aroused.

I stopped doing it after that.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Baboons Shy, Ignorant or Lazy?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:28 pm 
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Location: Daar waar die bobbejane hul borshare kam
I found this under research of baboon behavior:

Baboon intimacy and detachment present vexing clues

There are a million stories in the naked jungle.
Some of the strangest ones take place on the savanna street corners where baboons hang out.
People need look no further for weird, even kinky, tales of life among the feral, fierce, and furry.

Baboons' odd practices offer more than vicarious thrills for nature buffs, though.
In the wild, these regal-looking, powerfully built monkeys behave in ways that raise intriguing questions about what goes on in their minds.

Consider this peculiar sight:
An adult male baboon strides stiff-legged up to another male while flashing a "let's-make-nice" facial expression, turns around, and permits the other fellow to briefly touch ....
In the macho world of male baboons, guys otherwise avoid each other between the skirmishes that determine the privileges of social authority, such as prime access to mates.
Why would the greeting monkey place his reproductive future literally in the palm of an opponent's hand?

Adult female baboons exhibit a perplexing habit of their own.
Understandably, they often emit a full-throated barking sound if separated from either their troop or their infants.
However, if a youngster that has wandered off starts screeching in distress, its mother stays mum.
Sure, she looks toward her child's call and may rush off in that direction.
Yet despite the threat of predators and infanticide-minded male baboons, the mom refuses to employ the search tactic of calling back and forth with the disoriented tyke.
Why not reach out and bark to someone?

Separate research teams are trying to figure out what these puzzling behaviors signify about baboons' mental states.
Preliminary explanations vary widely in their implications for how the animals think.

"Male baboons engage in common, highly variable, and complex ritual greetings," asserts anthropologist Barbara B. Smuts of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. "
We know little about these rituals, but they're a rich source of information about how baboons communicate and think."

Smuts suspects that trust builds from successful completion of greetings, which are most common among older males.
Such salutations may even act as a nonverbal promise to help each other in driving young, dominant males away from sexually receptive females.
After dispatching a young suitor, members of these "over-the-hill" gangs alternate in approaching the female.

In contrast, female baboons' silence in the face of their lost infants' cries suggests that these adult monkeys fail to grasp that other individuals have thoughts and feelings, contends psychologist Drew Rendall of the University of Lethbridge in Alberta.

"Complicated-looking behavior in baboons, including male greetings, may not require sophisticated social and cognitive capacities," he says.

Monkeys and apes--even chimpanzees trained to use simple languages--remain mute on the subject of whether they ponder either their own thoughts or those of others.
Until several years ago, many scientists were receptive to the idea that a variety of nonhuman primates can understand, to some extent, that they and others have motives and intentions.

A new breed of laboratory experiments, however, has challenged that assumption.
For example, when confronted with two people pointing to different cups, chimpanzees choose randomly and don't seem to realize that they can snag a snack by heeding the person whom they previously saw hiding food under one of the cups.

Although groups of chimps appear to pass on their own traditions of tool use and social communication, monkeys may not do so.
Field observations have yielded no conclusive evidence that monkeys impute thoughts or emotions to others, intentionally imitate what others do, or teach each other even simple food-gathering skills.

Still, it's too early to draw firm conclusions about the mental workings of non-human primates, Smuts says. Greetings between pairs of male baboons provide glimpses of what look to Smuts like learned performances.
Each greeting incorporates a set of conventional behaviors while still allowing for on-the-spot negotiations about who does what to whom and how far to go.

Smuts and anthropologist John M. Watanabe of Dartmouth College in Hanover, N.H., have documented, over a 4-month period, 637 greetings among 12 adult males in a troop of 150 baboons in Kenya.
Smuts has also videotaped 400 such greetings in another baboon troop of comparable size.

Watanabe summarized his and Smuts' findings in February at the Annual Meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science in Washington, D.C.

A typical greeting begins with one male walking upright rapidly toward another with a straight-legged, rolling stride.
The approaching male looks directly at his intended partner while making friendly gestures, such as smacking his lips, flattening his ears back, and narrowing his eyes.

Often, the second male maintains eye contact and smacks his lips in return.
In that case, the animals get up close and personal.
They often begin with a quick hug or nuzzle.
One then presents his hindquarters; the other grasps them, ...
Sometimes, participants exchange active and passive roles during a single greeting.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _62258567/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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 Post subject: Re: Are Baboons Shy, Ignorant or Lazy?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:16 pm 
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Virtual Ranger
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 448
Location: SA
Jors wrote:
Nkuhlu can at times be pretty bad, especially when it is high season for international tourists. Don't know how, but the baboons seem to realise that the busses bring people with big breakfast packs. And the monkeys there are pretty bad too. I have seen some hairy interactions.

Hi all.
If I can just try to explain the current situation at Nkuhlu:

Last week, I think it was Monday I had two baboons at the area, Wednesday one again, and today two chasing each other around.
This was the only and first instances to my knowledge since December last year where baboons came to visit us.
The reasoning behind this is that I took away more than half of the dustbins, which, BTW is animal proof. (supposedly)
They do sleep on the premisess' boundaries, so they are there just before we leave in the afternoon.
I am positive, however that we have more or less won the battle with regards to baboons.
Now we are busy working on the monkeys.
If it means using catapults, yes. I know we are seen as inhumane, but I have a business to run, and lets be honest, if you are attacked by a monkey here, will you come back?
Unfortunately I can't lecture people the whole day long of not feeding the animals.
I chase, yes, chase away many a tourist every week, for feeding the animals.
I ask once, the second time they leave. Point.
It is a huge problem at this stage, as I said, but I am positive we will win the fight soon.
It took me 8 months to win the baboon situation, so a few months from now, it will be different.
Next time you pop in, come drink some coffee.
The monkeys run away when they see me. :hmz:
Now I must figure out between me, Theuns and Robert whos the good, the bad and the ugly...

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 Post subject: Re: Are Baboons Shy, Ignorant or Lazy?
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 1:45 pm
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Location: southern gauteng
Image
Some are not so shy .

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:03 am 
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Also the story about the man who threw chairs at the baboons is an interesting one.
If you try to look at it from a baboon perspective as opposed to a human one, he may not be so wrong after all.
It would be highly unlikely for anyone to actually be able to hit a baboon by throwing a chair but as far as baboon language is concerned, this action would certainly make the point.
When baboon troops feel intruded upon by stranger troops, the leaders will display in a similar manner by running around wa-hooing, breaking branches etc.
Body language is all important in getting the point across to the strangers that they are crossing boundaries. These male displays serve to intimidate anyone and that is all they are - non violent displays.
Humans can use the same strong body language to make the point - to show they are angry and an angry human man is not to be reckoned with.

Again if you look at shooting baboons from a baboon perspective: baboons - like us- cannot actually see the bullet make the journey from a gun to the victim.
This is a crucial factor in making a connection about how lethal guns actually are in non-human primates.
They is their eyesight as a primary sense and need to see to understand completely.

After saying all that, I find it disheartening that Sanparks officials take for granted that "problem" baboons should be shot when there are so many non-lethal methods available.
Unfortunately this is just one of many protocols that give South African tourism a bad name with many potential tourists choosing to stay away.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Location: Hopping around greener pastures.
We had the dubious distinction of visiting Nkhulu in 2008.
We were staying over at Skukuza and I have always loved Nkhulu and make an effort to get there whenever I can.
However, in 2008 it was a mess.
There were a number of 25 litre paint drums serving as dirt bins and the litter was awful.
We watched some vervets taking chewing gum out of the bins and chewing it.
Very entertaining, but not an ideal situation. :hmz:

Then in 2009, we visited the park again (late April) and had breakfast at Nkhulu. What a turn-around. The place was clean and not a monkey in sight. :clap:

Some time during the mid 90's, while having brekkie at Nkhulu, we also had an incident where monkeys stole several slices of our toast and some fruit from another visitor before heading for the trees.

Glad to know that someone is making an effort to get rid of the problem. :clap:

On a separate occasion during our 2009 visit, we had a vervet invade our car within 5 seconds of getting out.
I had not even seen them when we arrived at the Nwamazi lookout close to Olifants.
Little thief stole some fizz pop suckers when we whacked the nik naks out if his hands, made it to the safety of the tress and proceeded to open both.

Some seconds later another one invaded the cars of some fresh arrivals and made off with several packs of crisps.

Primates are a problem largely because of their intelligence and are always up for an opportunistic meal.

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Conservation is not an option.
It's imperative.

Leave KNP alone. Go build a hotel someplace else. Reserves are for the preservation of wildlife.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:43 pm 
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Virtual Ranger
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:02 pm
Posts: 448
Location: SA
It is a real pitty that people do not realise that if they do not feed the animals, including birds, the problem will never go away.
We are trying our utmost best to alleviate the problem but its all about education

BH- thank you for the kind words.
I have done the outragious and bought myself a pellet gun for Nkuhlu.
Even though I never fire a live shot, I do pull the trigger to make them hear the sound.
Even by just seeing the pellet, they run.
I have been monkey free for seven days now, and an idiot screwed up everything this morning and fed the birds and the next moment the monkeys were back.
It sounds stupid, but they are always close by and watching from a distance.
So we feed the birds, they want some also.
but they got the message again and ran of when they saw me. (maybe my big stomach???)

So in short, between David and myself we are trying our utmost best to have the two sites monkey proof, but will never achieve this without the help of our patrons

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:29 pm 
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What about waterpistols ? Are they effective ?


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