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 Post subject: Re: Are Baboons Shy, Ignorant or Lazy?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:39 pm 
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Jors wrote:
A big part of baboon dominant behaviour is in the face/eyes. By turning their faces away from you they avoid confrontation and is a form of submissive behaviour. Next time you see monkeys or baboons, try and make eye contact and then open your eyes wide, watch the reaction. This is aggressive behaviour from your side, and will either evoke visible aggression or submissive behaviour.


Jors I've tried that with vervets and go two reactions. The first time the monkey ran off, but the second time it (a male) lay back, reclining and resting on one elbow (and I'm not making this up) and became quite... err... aroused.

I stopped doing it after that.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Baboons Shy, Ignorant or Lazy?
Unread postPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:47 pm 
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Some are not so shy .

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KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:03 am 
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Also the story about the man who threw chairs at the baboons is an interesting one.
If you try to look at it from a baboon perspective as opposed to a human one, he may not be so wrong after all.
It would be highly unlikely for anyone to actually be able to hit a baboon by throwing a chair but as far as baboon language is concerned, this action would certainly make the point.
When baboon troops feel intruded upon by stranger troops, the leaders will display in a similar manner by running around wa-hooing, breaking branches etc.
Body language is all important in getting the point across to the strangers that they are crossing boundaries. These male displays serve to intimidate anyone and that is all they are - non violent displays.
Humans can use the same strong body language to make the point - to show they are angry and an angry human man is not to be reckoned with.

Again if you look at shooting baboons from a baboon perspective: baboons - like us- cannot actually see the bullet make the journey from a gun to the victim.
This is a crucial factor in making a connection about how lethal guns actually are in non-human primates.
They is their eyesight as a primary sense and need to see to understand completely.

After saying all that, I find it disheartening that Sanparks officials take for granted that "problem" baboons should be shot when there are so many non-lethal methods available.
Unfortunately this is just one of many protocols that give South African tourism a bad name with many potential tourists choosing to stay away.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:29 pm 
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What about waterpistols ? Are they effective ?


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:21 pm 
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A BAZOOKA water pistol! :thumbs_up:

But these guys are intelligent. They will soon learn how far that can reach ... and sit 1 meter higher up in the trees when it appears. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:45 am 
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Location: South Africa
I have adopted a policy myself whereby, if I see a tourist feeding any animals, or bird or littering, or getting out of their vehicle, even though I don't have a badge or am a ranger, I do make myself heard to these offenders.
I usually get verbal abuse (which I can't even repeat -so disgusting), but, I think if each of us who knows the consequences can do their bit, it should help a bit.
I mean, we are spread all over the park at various times visiting the park and we can be the ears and eyes for the rangers and Kruger.
I just need more input on what to say in certain instances.
My line usually if I see someone out of their vehicle where they are not supposed to be outside their vehicle is "excuse me, sir, madam, did you know that you are NOT allowed to get out of your vehicle in the KNP?"
I usually also add, 'it is endangering yourself, the people in your car, but mostly, you are disrupting the viewing for those of us wanting to see the animals in their natural environment and if you are leaning out of your vehicle, the animal leaves and therefore you spoil it for everyone else".

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:01 pm 
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I usually ask folk if they have read the gate leaflet. If they say yes, I tell them to read it again because...... If they say no, I tell them it is important to do so because they would have discovered that they must not..... ..

Here at Malelane camp I am making sure that I see each group as soon after their arrival as possible and tell them about the problem with monkeys, and advise them to use the few baboon-prrof bins we have rather than the others, keep all food securely out of sight/in cupboards, and not to feed the birds as that also encourages the monkeys.

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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:48 pm 
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ecojunkie wrote:
and not to feed the birds as that also encourages the monkeys.


Strangely some people do not seem to understand this - in fact someone on the forum questioned my logic when I wrote similarly .

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KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2009 8:46 pm 
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I do explain that the monkeys are clever enough to watch the birds and if they see them flocking somewhere they immediately know there is food about!

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Smiling is contagious. Start an epidemic today!

Have you read the entrance permit? Do you KNOW the Conditions of Entry?

Completed over 6 years in Kruger in my caravan.

If I was normal I wouldn't be me!

Visit OLA


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:47 pm 
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Throughout the ages, it has been proved that shooting so called monkeys or baboons does not stop them raiding.
So why does anyone even contemplate it especially considering the permanent damage caused to troop structures in the long term?
I repeatedly get people telling that they shoot out of anger, not because it does any good.
And yet these same people pride themselves on being rational thinkers....
Shooting baboons and monkeys is creating dysfunctional social troops.

Pellet guns are not an answer either.

If you use a catapult, one can use a piece of soft wood much like the cork you find in wine bottles - plenty of those around in camps as you all know.

A hosepipe is great too and so is banging on a pot and making a noise that as akin to expressing the equivalent of a baboon display (strong body language, loud shouting - a determined message that this is your territory.

One problem is that we need to be consistent.
You can't invite monkeys and baboons one day then expect them not to come back the next.

The person who said they were relieved that the problem was being dealt with, well I can't help but answer, that you need to accept that wild animals are not the problem.
People are.

Take responsibility and act accordingly.
Wild primates invade our space because of human intervention.
Take the attraction away and they have no reason to visit or steal.

"Passing the buck" - redirected aggression - is a common primate behaviour however.
And us humans are primates too, being guilty of this ourselves all too often.

Should we not try to be aware of this and look to ourselves for solutions that don't involve killing other species while our own continues to breed without challenge? Just saying....:-)


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 Post subject: Re: Monkeys and baboons at picnic sites
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:27 pm 
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Wildhearted, again you have brought some pertinent points into the discussion. :thumbs_up: We have to understand that primates have a system of symbols of their own. How they interpret our behaviour is based on their own system, not ours.

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 Post subject: Re: "Ketties" & Monkeys
Unread postPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Can someone please explain something to me.

We have National Parks - established to conserve our natural heritage, part of which are the animals that live in the area.
And the way I understand it, it is all the animals in the area.
Each one is interdependent on the next in the food chain and circle of life.
Right?

Along comes man - who wants to now spend a night in these areas, so fenced off camps are built.
Or picnic areas so man can get out his car and enjoy a meal.

Fine, fences keep out certain animals - purely because they cannot walk through the fence.

The part I do not understand is, how does one explain to a monkey for eg, that he is in a conservation area yes, he and his fellow creatures actually come first in this area - but there are certain places man has decided he wants to be, so monkey - you keep away.
You are not welcome in those areas.

I abhor the feeding of animals - it is unnatural apart from the consequences eventually suffered by the creatures.
But I do not understand how we humans can visit National Parks and have certain 'expectations' from animals that they must not come into 'our' camp, or cottage etc.
I am not just talking about monkeys here - I mean ants, bugs, mozzies, rats, the works.
They are all vital to the ecology but man decides that some are a nuisance to his comfort, and they must not be in 'his area'.

This puzzles me a LOT!

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