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 Post subject: Re: Sightings in the Pafuri Area
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:43 am 
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Good day Johan thank you for the effort to keep us informed regarding sightings in the Pafuri area although this installment is interesting reading in a different sense than sightings of fishing owls, leopards and so forth. Kruger is facing many growing challenges.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:42 pm 
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My pleasure, Grantmissy. I shall get around to reporting the latest animal sightings sooner than later, I hope, but only after I deal with all the non-tourist traffic up there.

Johan


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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:03 pm 
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:big_eyes: johanrebel.

Maybe this is a new activity for a client that is looking for more than a rondavel and clean ablution facilities :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Upon leaving Punda Maria on the 3rd of January, we found 4 refugees walking in the middle of the tar road on their way to Punda Gate. They didn't even try to run or hide, just kept on walking. We tried to ask them what they are doing and with the little English they understood and could explain themselves, just said something that sounded like "jumping the border". We were fully loaded in our car with a trailer in tow, so we couldn't turn around to report them, but did that at Shingwedzi, but by that time, it would have been too late and they would have disappeared already, we were told.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Hi there,

In my oppinion, it ist to easy to say that all illegal people, are refugees from Mocambique. Now days I belive the biggest matter are the refugees from Zimbabwe or Poacher from Asia, which mainly hunts Rhino. It is a very sad story at the moment they build up a smuggler Ring to bring out the horns and sell it in Asia. The Smuggler Ring will probably work together with Poachers and that makes it very complicated. Because of the Langauge difficulties I can imagine that the recruite mainly people either from RSA or Zim. It is bad to say, but these guys getting more and more organised and techniliased.

It would be very intresting to see how many refugees are really comming from Moc. I will doubt it. As far as I know Mocambiqure are stabil now days. I´m correkt?

It would be intresting to see, how many Humans are really killed by Lions, because of their shy Behavior I can imagine, that lot of people are killed from Leopards without getting reportet in the statistiks. The Problem ist, the rare Matrial to use, so the whole discussion is based on either spekulation or people which got couth dead or alive. Evrything Else is just a guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:44 pm 
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PetraJ wrote:
Upon leaving Punda Maria on the 3rd of January, we found 4 refugees walking in the middle of the tar road on their way to Punda Gate. They didn't even try to run or hide, just kept on walking. We tried to ask them what they are doing and with the little English they understood and could explain themselves, just said something that sounded like "jumping the border". We were fully loaded in our car with a trailer in tow, so we couldn't turn around to report them, but did that at Shingwedzi, but by that time, it would have been too late and they would have disappeared already, we were told.


I wouldve tied them to the top of my trailer and deposited them at the nearest camp!

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:57 pm 
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a lot of people try to have a better life... they are not all poacher :cry:

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:12 pm 
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of course, not all immigrants are poachers. If you got this interpretation from my post. I´d like to appologize. It shouldn´t come out like that.

I just like to point ou, that i don´t belive, that all Refugees are comming from Mocambique, in comparison to Zimbabwe this country is stabil.

But I can imagine that we do have a correaltion between illegal entering the Park and poaching. But that doesn´t mean at all that all immigrants are poachers, just to mame myself clear.

Best regards

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:29 pm 
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thank you Malealea :thumbs_up:
I just replied to Sheenaugh-Lee who would like...tied.... :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:19 pm 
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I think it would be fairly safe to assume that the majority of illegal immigrants are from Mozambique and not Zimbabwe (not all, but definately the majority). Only a small part of SA that is on the border with Zimbabwe is Kruger, whereas the vast majority of the borderline between SA and Mozambique is part of Kruger. What Im saying is that it is easier for Zimbabwean immigrants to cross the border elsewhere into SA, whereas Mozambiquan immigrants have to cross Kruger to get into SA.

The political situation in Mozambique may be stable, but poverty is still rife. I have been to Maputo (the capital) and a lot of the buildings there still show signs of the war which ended a long time ago. These people are looking for a better life as AnneMarie points out, such a shame that poverty is still such a factor, one that drives people to risk literally everything (most of all their life) for the small promise of a better, more satisfying life...it breaks my heart.

It is also not correct to assume that lions are "shy" animals. I have been on a walk from Lower Sabie, where we drove close to the Moz border. We came across a pride of lions (while fortunately still in the vehicle on the way to the walking point) who had clearly lost their fear of humans. The guide knew this pride well and indicated that they had killed many illegals in the past (these could only have been Moz illegals btw).

Such a sad reality of the area that we live in, something that you dont need "book facts" to know about or prove.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:52 pm 
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To make myself clear here I dont care if they are poachers or searching for a better life fact is they are stepping into my country illegally, and hence I will stop them I have witnessed how our own people are suffering due to illegals whether zim or mozambique entering into our country getting jobs and south africans suffer! If they want to do it go about it in the correct manner I dont see what right they have to overstep that boundary and do as they please in my country they wont allow it in theirs so Ill stand my ground on mine as its my right to do so, that is why I will give them in.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:32 pm 
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Hi patto,

I wrote very clearly that I meant with shy animals Leopards and not lions. But even Lions can be very shy and quite esspecially on the hunt. But that is an another discussion, that i really don´t want to start. The reason why I doubt it, that the most refugees are killed by Lions is the Fact, that this is nearly impossible to cought a Leopard in the act of killing. So far nobody Knows how many People die in Kruger nor why they die. Lot´s of open questions

Well as I said in my former Post, it is just an Assumption, because I haven been to Zimbabwe 2011 and the Situation was frighting. The Situation is even more worse then then in Mocambique where a development is in Progress. Of Course the Situation is still worse, I don´t want to deny that, but I only question the matter that all Refugees are Mocambique. I´m talking about the majority, that doesn´t mean at all that no Mocambiquen refugees are entering RSA. That is definatly not correct.

Hello Sheenaugh-Lee
I´m very shocked abou the Statement you have done. Of Course it is not correkt if they are entering Illegally but these are humans as you and me and so he have to treat them. these are no animals.
The Rate of unemployment, which is in RSA very high is also very shoking, but still I dont think that the Refugges from ZIM or MOC are a big competition to the RSA citizen. It is in my oppinion to easy to blame the foreign humans for everything. I really don´t want to start a political debatte, But that Stattement really makes me think.

Best Regards

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:52 am 
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Hi Malealea, apologies for misinterpreting your post about the lion and leopard.

Sheenaugh-Lee, I understand your frustration. My sympathy for the situation is in no way support for them entering SA. I also think a distinction needs to be made about illegal immigrants in Kruger for no other reason that crossing over into SA and those illegal immigrants entering Kruger to poach animals, two vastly different groups of ppl in my honest opinion.

As mentioned though, either way, I dont think it is right and more should be done to stop them in Kruger (and the rest of SA for that matter).

Reporting them to the nearest camp is all we can do (sadly). As has been mentioned previously, they are desperate people who will do desperate (read dangerous) things to people who try take the law into their own hands.

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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:34 am 
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Just caught up with this thread.

Still LMAO about this:
Stark wrote:
I read somewhere, and I can't remember if it dealt with KNP, that cross-border walkers would bang pots to make noise and scare away lions.
Didn't work, as soon lions associated the pot-banging with a dinner bell for an easy meal. :cry:
.

:twisted: :twisted:

It's a pity the Punda pride were shot out just for preferring easy-meals! :cry:

@Malealea re: Sheenaugh-Lee's post: the illegals from Moz and Zim are indeed in direct competition for work with the poorest of the poor of South Africa's citizens. It is not as if it is scientists and doctors illegally crossing the border - but mostly unschooled labourers looking for work. South Africa is a country where there is already a overly large supply of unschooled (or poorly schooled) labourers, and surely SA citizens should be looked after first before that of other countries? Maybe if there was not a 40% unemployment rate in SA, mostly among the unschooled labourers, it would not have been a problem. Educated foreigners who have something to contribute to South Africa will go through official channels and have no need to cross KNP on foot.


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 Post subject: Re: Illegals / Refugees walking in the park
Unread postPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:47 am 
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OK we are now drifting into political waters.

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