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 Post subject: Humans, bush/day walks and guiding
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:31 am 
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These incidents set one thinking :hmz: :hmz: :hmz:
Should we continue to do these bush walks?? :shock:
I have done some of the walks... and they are truly an amazing experience, :dance:
BUT we are in the animals territory,
This makes it very sad that the animal has to be shot or shot at, for our safety :cry:
And I do understand this requirement...
I also acknowledge it is a source of income for Kruger, and we know the income is much needed,
So are we doing the right thing by walking in their natural environment, and putting our beloved animals at risk?
Perhaps more game DRIVES in Sanpark vehicles?? :hmz: :hmz:

:( :hmz:


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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:19 am 
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manicwalker wrote:
These incidents set one thinking :hmz: :hmz: :hmz:
Should we continue to do these bush walks?? :shock:
I have done some of the walks... and they are truly an amazing experience, :dance:
BUT we are in the animals territory,
This makes it very sad that the animal has to be shot or shot at, for our safety :cry:
And I do understand this requirement...
I also acknowledge it is a source of income for Kruger, and we know the income is much needed,
So are we doing the right thing by walking in their natural environment, and putting our beloved animals at risk?
Perhaps more game DRIVES in Sanpark vehicles?? :hmz: :hmz:

:( :hmz:


I'm inclined to agree MW. I’ve been wondering :hmz: , and I think Sanparks must wonder about it too, if they shouldn't suspend game walks, especially in the south for the time being. The animals are nervous especially with all the poaching going on, and I think they have lost their “trust” of humans. I think that is why the ellies is also a bit worked up. You’ll remember in years gone by the ellies in the north were exceptionally aggressive, because of the wars that were going on in Zim and Mozambique. If you approached a bull or cow that came from the other side of the fence, they would charge without hesitation. :shock: There Is still a few ellies up there with not to fond memories of soldiers and poachers alike. :sniper: So maybe they must just reconsider until things have cooled down a bit. Like you say, it is a source of income, but if you have to shoot something to protect the people that went to look for in the first place, is it worth it? I think not. :naughty: The price of one rhino is worth more than a 100 walks. And what they’re going to do with the calf now till they find mom, if they manage to find her? Catch 22 situation… Rather keep it in vehicles for now, just have more gamedrives since you have the guides to do it. There is many people that would love to spend the time you take for a bushwalk on a gamedrive. 8) Especially with the holiday season around the corner? :thumbs_up:


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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:23 am 
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Dan, I agree with you 100%. The animals are a bit skittish at the moment. So maybe a suspension of the walks is good. :thumbs_up:


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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:16 am 
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I leave the UK for SA tonight and I’m an international traveller bringing money into SA and SANParks. I have a booking for the Napi Trail on the 21st November. Before and after I’m staying in southern camps and will see lots of game from the car. If I was told that the Napi Trail was cancelled or was now a game drive trail I would be disappointed but would accept the decision without complaint.

Kruger in not ‘our’ place, it is an ecosystem for the plants and animals and their welfare must come first. People, all 7 billion+ of us, have enough space on the planet. We need to avoid people/rhino conflict with the 17,000 rhino left. If in so doing WE have to keep our distance so be it.

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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:11 pm 
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AdrianFW wrote:
Kruger in not ‘our’ place, it is an ecosystem for the plants and animals and their welfare must come first. People, all 7 billion+ of us, have enough space on the planet. We need to avoid people/rhino conflict with the 17,000 rhino left. If in so doing WE have to keep our distance so be it.


AdrianFW! :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:11 pm 
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This is very thought provoking.

Sorry mods for speculating again, but it is just a thought.

I wonder if the number of people going on walks and trails, and 'bumpng into' white rhinos, as I have done, is making the poachers' 'job' easier, because the rhinos might have become more comfortable with human presence on foot, thereby making easier targets. :hmz:

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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:06 pm 
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It is easily possible to approach within firing range of a white rhino without it being at all aware of human presence , in fact that is how all poachers will operate to minimise a wasted shot and possible detection due to the noise produced .
In most cases a white rhino is fleeing from perceived danger and due to its poor eyesight has little idea of where to run to , I would not be at all surprised if this was the case in this incident .

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KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.


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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:23 pm 
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AdrianFW! :clap: Respect :thumbs_up:

Now, how do we convert the saffies :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:47 am 
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:clap: :clap: :clap: for AdrianFW and others feeling that the trail walks must end

Nothing more to add........just so :dance: :dance: :dance: to know that there's still mites on this forum that feels the same as me........

Don't get me wrong, I am a long distance relative of a game ranger that was extremely critisized for wounding a lioness on the metsi metsi trail in 2008, so therefore I feel for the rangers as well.....their first priority is for the well being of the tourists.

NO GAME WALKS = NO CHANcE OF ANIMALS GETTING HURT - It's not rocket science :? :? :?

:gflower: Wishing you a speedy recovery

As for the ellie, I truely believe as stated that he had a serious problem whether from abses? not confirmed that caused his outrage, just hope they can help him / if neccesary relieve him

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Last edited by twigga on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Ahhhh.... :D

I agree 100%. How refreshing to see there is more people with a bit of grey matter between the ears. You can't tell me you're doing it for the money, do they know what the cost of a rhino is on the auction? So lets just stop it for a while till the poaching have dropped signafintly enough and all the animal's moods have calmed down a bit. And don't go and stop next to a lion and rev your v6 4x4 till the engine want to climb out just so that the lion must lift his head. :sniper: He's lying down for a reason, hopefully that you won't see him and he can have his beauty sleep in piece.... :evil:


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 Post subject: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 3:58 pm 
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I (fortunately / unfortunately) cannot agree with everybody calling for a suspension / cancellation of all walks.

(1) If Kruger 'is not our place' as indicated earlier, then I guess we should close its gates on a permanent basis for everybody (whether on foot or in a car). Rest assured, with the loss of money not only the Rhinos will become extinct.

(2) I have been on a few walks and during our interactions with Rhinos they were more often than not not even aware of our existence (maybe this was due to good skills on the rangers' part though). To make an immediate link between walks and Rhino poaching and also between this incident and walks seems, with all due respect, very harsh and unscientific. For how many years and years before the recent (massive) escallation of Rhino poaching incidents have there been walks?

(3) If the amount of 'damaged' caused in this way as a result of walks is a consideration, may I suggest that we then compare it with the massive amounts of damaged caused by lawless tourists (speeding, killing animals, feeding, getting out at sightings, etc. etc. etc., especially in the South). Again, maybe we should rather ban all cars and only allow people to enter the Park to go on walks.

(3) In my experience, the real nature lovers (and not the 'trouble makers' causing much more damage) are generally the people going on walks.


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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:15 pm 
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Obelix wrote:
I (fortunately / unfortunately) cannot agree with everybody calling for a suspension / cancellation of all walks.

(1) If Kruger 'is not our place' as indicated earlier, then I guess we should close its gates on a permanent basis for everybody (whether on foot or in a car). Rest assured, with the loss of money not only the Rhinos will become extinct.

(2) I have been on a few walks and during our interactions with Rhinos they were more often than not not even aware of our existence (maybe this was due to good skills on the rangers' part though). To make an immediate link between walks and Rhino poaching and also between this incident and walks seems, with all due respect, very harsh and unscientific. For how many years and years before the recent (massive) escallation of Rhino poaching incidents have there been walks?

(3) If the amount of 'damaged' caused in this way as a result of walks is a consideration, may I suggest that we then compare it with the massive amounts of damaged caused by lawless tourists (speeding, killing animals, feeding, getting out at sightings, etc. etc. etc., especially in the South). Again, maybe we should rather ban all cars and only allow people to enter the Park to go on walks.

(3) In my experience, the real nature lovers (and not the 'trouble makers' causing much more damage) are generally the people going on walks.


I fully agree with the above. Did Wolhuter two years ago and looking forward to doing Olifants next year. You sign an indemnity form when you embark on this activity and so visitors are aware there are risks attached but for the most part it's a bush experience rather than chasing down the Big Five and low impact. This incident was unfortunate and I hope that the person who was injured recovers swiftly. I trust that SANParks is able to follow up on the rhino's wellbeing too. I think far more damage is caused to wildlife in the Kruger by speeding cars.


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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:29 am 
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I have been on many trails and walks and have seen many rhinos on these walks.

Firstly, I have to agree with redwingstarling and Obelix, most people doing the walks are usually genuine nature lovers who want a deeper experience of nature.

Secondly, Sanparks has a commitment to education. These walks are irreplaceable in their educational value.

Thirdly, these kinds of incidents are a fact of life. We have to learn and understand what went wrong. We don't ban driving because people are killed.. that is not using grey matter.

Every person who goes on a walk signs an indemnity form. I have signed many of these forms. Instructions are clear and I have been on a walk where the ranger threatened to terminate the walk because people were not following close enough.

Despite all precautions, accidents happen. Life is not an accident free journey. It is not meant to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:05 am 
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The reason for embarking on a wilderness trails experience should not to see animals but to take in the sounds of nature and be removed from your everyday surroundings .
There is allways a chance of an unexpected encounter with dangerous animals , as is there a chance of a encounter with dangerous people in human populated areas .
The facts are that every week dozens of animals are killed by cars in KNP , in comparison the amount of animal casualties on wilderness trails is insignificant .

I have walked in excess of 1000km in the Kruger and Umfolozi and have been privileged on a couple of occasions to see the trails ranger lead the group away from "special animal" sightings in order to avoid a possible encounter and also to "let the animal be" - i.e. to avoid disturbing it .

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KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.


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 Post subject: Re: Accident at Wolhuters Trail
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Had a feeling my regular trail dwellers would :sniper: me

Would agree on two points though - the success of these walks are hugely dependent on the experience or "good skills" as stated BUT and that but is HUGE.....

What about the unforseen incidents? Like said,a relative of mine was hugely critisized for wounding a lioness thats sole purpose was to protect her cubs from the "intruders" that stepped into her turf. His main concern was for the well being of the tourists. So where do you draw the line?

True about the speeding, alot of animals get killed this way, BUT I haven't recently heard of a rhino that got run over? :?

With all due respect, can't really seem to understand the comparison

ndloti wrote:
There is allways a chance of an unexpected encounter with dangerous animals , as is there a chance of a encounter with dangerous people in human populated areas .


AGAIN: If ther's no more walking trails there will be no more chances of an "unexpected encounter with dangerous animals "
We would be faaaaar better of with a few more "dangerous animals" then "dangerous people in human populated areas"

:wall: :wall: :wall:

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