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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Bush Baptist wrote:
When I was there 3 years ago, we were told that there was a plan to reintroduce cheetah, but dateless. Their prey animals (mainly springbok) would need grow into sufficient numbers, but the vegetation is not nutrient rich enough to support large herds.

But brown hyena were reintroduced last year. :thumbs_up:


Before lions were released, I stayed in the park for 13 nights during December 2008/January 2009. I was told by honorary rangers doing duty in the park at that time that the release of cheetahs were kept back because of ill-considered hunting (rather harvesting) of springbok. Springbok were shot in great numbers to bring the population down as the park could not carry the high numbers untill the electric fencing was completed. No balance was kept between males/females during the harvesting process. This led to a total imbalance between rams and ewes. More ewes were hunted. The increase in jackal and caracal numbers had a further negative effect on population growth as the young lambs were preferential prey. This led to SANParks "importing" great numbers of ewes at very high cost. Up till now numbers of springbok has still not increased to acceptable levels to introduce cheetah.

I am "selling" this at the same price I got it from more than one honorary ranger. True?? I have no reason not to believe the HR's.

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:32 am 
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Stoffel wrote:
Bush Baptist wrote:
When I was there 3 years ago, we were told that there was a plan to reintroduce cheetah, but dateless. Their prey animals (mainly springbok) would need grow into sufficient numbers, but the vegetation is not nutrient rich enough to support large herds.

But brown hyena were reintroduced last year. :thumbs_up:


Before lions were released, I stayed in the park for 13 nights during December 2008/January 2009. I was told by honorary rangers doing duty in the park at that time that the release of cheetahs were kept back because of ill-considered hunting (rather harvesting) of springbok. Springbok were shot in great numbers to bring the population down as the park could not carry the high numbers untill the electric fencing was completed. No balance was kept between males/females during the harvesting process. This led to a total imbalance between rams and ewes. More ewes were hunted. The increase in jackal and caracal numbers had a further negative effect on population growth as the young lambs were preferential prey. This led to SANParks "importing" great numbers of ewes at very high cost. Up till now numbers of springbok has still not increased to acceptable levels to introduce cheetah.

I am "selling" this at the same price I got it from more than one honorary ranger. True?? I have no reason not to believe the HR's.


Stoffel, if I am you, i will rather comment on official Media releases from SANParks regarding the springbok issue, before using my own opinions and "facts" from Honorary Rangers (Voluteers) and state that as facts on this forum.. Your comment on the preferred species of prey for cheetah is also wrong. Cheetah is like any other cat species very opportunistic and will take any prey within a certain sie limit. In Kgalagadi the cheetahs prefered prey species is steenbok, while in Mountain Zebra NP they preferred to prey on mountain reedbuck for a long time before switching over to other species. Your comment that the springbok population in Karoo NP has still not increased to acceptable levels is also your own opinion.Did you count the springbok yourself and made the deduction, because the latest info from Karoo Management is that they are waiting to conduct the annual aerial surveyfirst, to get estimates on herbivore numbers, before making any decision on the introduction of cheetah. Please refrain from "selling" incorrect or half true statements on this forum.


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:16 am 
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Is this an official viewpoint?!
Probably not as polite a tone as we like on these forums.


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:44 am 
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Can Sanparks perhaps issue some sort of reply to this info?

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:36 am 
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Hi Kapokbos,

I don't know who you are, but at least you are interested in Karoo! Thanks for that. You seem upset that forum members share info they receive from reception, other visitors etc.
The problem is that NO regular update/info is forthcoming from Sanparks, so we have to listen to second best info!
If you look at this forum, we have been told for the past few years that "a census is coming soon, and then we will know if springbok numbers have increased enough" but we still await the outcome of the censuses as they relate to cheetah introduction.

If I remember correctly, cheetah were promised BEFORE the announcement of lions. By the way, I wrote to this very thread about 2 years before the lions arrived, and asked when Sanparks would consider lions. Official answer: NOT FOR A LONG TIME, even though they existed here in the past. Quite a surprise when the announcement came out just before World Cup that lions would be coming to Karoo after all...
Do us a favour and give REGULAR updates on these topics (I know you are very busy, but try...) so that there will be less speculation from forum members.
Nobody informed us that 2 new male lions from Kgalagadi were to be introduced last year, so a forumite gave us the info. I phoned to check, and yes, it was true. We are very pleased about this!
Do let us know what your cheetah plans are -- I am sure there are plenty of other animals they can prey on in Karoo National Park -- we are just very keen to have them!

God bless,

Friedrich von Hörsten

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:36 pm 
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Kapokbos wrote:
Stoffel wrote:

Before lions were released, I stayed in the park for 13 nights during December 2008/January 2009. I was told by honorary rangers doing duty in the park at that time that the release of cheetahs were kept back because of ill-considered hunting (rather harvesting) of springbok. Springbok were shot in great numbers to bring the population down as the park could not carry the high numbers untill the electric fencing was completed. No balance was kept between males/females during the harvesting process. This led to a total imbalance between rams and ewes. More ewes were hunted. The increase in jackal and caracal numbers had a further negative effect on population growth as the young lambs were preferential prey. This led to SANParks "importing" great numbers of ewes at very high cost. Up till now numbers of springbok has still not increased to acceptable levels to introduce cheetah.

I am "selling" this at the same price I got it from more than one honorary ranger. True?? I have no reason not to believe the HR's.


Stoffel, if I am you, i will rather comment on official Media releases from SANParks regarding the springbok issue, before using my own opinions and "facts" from Honorary Rangers (Voluteers) and state that as facts on this forum.. Your comment on the preferred species of prey for cheetah is also wrong. Cheetah is like any other cat species very opportunistic and will take any prey within a certain sie limit. In Kgalagadi the cheetahs prefered prey species is steenbok, while in Mountain Zebra NP they preferred to prey on mountain reedbuck for a long time before switching over to other species. Your comment that the springbok population in Karoo NP has still not increased to acceptable levels is also your own opinion.Did you count the springbok yourself and made the deduction, because the latest info from Karoo Management is that they are waiting to conduct the annual aerial surveyfirst, to get estimates on herbivore numbers, before making any decision on the introduction of cheetah. Please refrain from "selling" incorrect or half true statements on this forum.


Kapokbos

It will be great to hear the true facts about the release of cheetahs and the present springbok situation (if you have them). Did I really state the information as facts. I asked the question: True???

And regarding the springbok population to increase to acceptable levels was again emphasized by a ranger in the park when I stayed there in January this year. It was said in so many words that if the sprinbok population seems to be on a level where management wants it, only then the release of cheetahs will take place.

It is quite true what Friedrich van Horsten says above: The problem is that NO regular update/info is forthcoming from Sanparks, so we have to listen to second best info!

And I can only accentuate what Kite also said above: Probably not as polite a tone as we like on these forums.

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo NP to introduce lions to mark 30th anniversary
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:47 pm 
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Addo Elephant wrote:
There have always been plans to bring in both lions and cheetah. The introduction of lions is happening first because their prey sepcies are already at levels which can support a lion population. We first had to stabilise the springbok population (which will be the cheetah's preferred prey) before introducing cheetah. This will happen within the next two-three years.


See Megan Taplin's comment on Page 6 of this thread. She has been SANParks' spokesperson for the Transfrontier Parks.

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo NP to introduce lions to mark 30th anniversary
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:51 pm 
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Apologies for the absence from the Forums, all. I have taken over from Megan as Communications Manager in the Frontier Region, and have been getting to grips with the job. I will enquire with Park Management on the topic at hand, and revert with feedback as soon as I have it.

Fayroush Ludick


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo NP to introduce lions to mark 30th anniversary
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:02 pm 
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Hi Fayrous

Good to hear from you. As you can see, we are passionate about wildlife conservation, especially in areas closer to Cape Town! I am getting older, and the annual trips to Zimbabwe and Kruger are getting a bit strenuous, so bring those beautiful cats and other animals closer to the Cape!

I for one, am very keen to know what is going to happen in Mountain Zebra NP in the near future too, that park has so much potential...

Looking forward to any news/updates about Kruger, Addo, Cradock etc.

God bless,

Friedrich von Hörsten

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo NP to introduce lions to mark 30th anniversary
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:38 am 
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Some clarity on cheetah introduction in Karoo National Park - from Park Management:

Cheetah is still definitely on the cards for introduction into Karoo, but any new introductions should be planned, authorised and executed according to planning regimes and depend on the availability of resources.

A population cannot recover in a very short term (referring to the springbok issue) of 1 or two years. The monitoring survey of our springbok is required first, so that we can be sure if we do introduce any cheetah, we won’t put a possible additional burden on their numbers.

Karoo National Park is conducting annual surveys to determine trends in herbivore populations. Although we are of the opinion that we can very soon introduce cheetah, we first want to do another survey before making a final decision on when to introduce the cheetah. The next scheduled survey is planned for the last week in May 2013. The result from this survey will determine if we go ahead this year with the introduction of the cheetah.

Secondly, despite the fact that we were waiting for a final survey before doing final planning in this regard, we could not introduce any cheetah earlier as the large predator boma was occupied with brown hyena for a few months and then the two new lion males. It is impossible to keep two different predator species in the same area due to obvious reasons.

The third factor that would influence our introduction of cheetah is also the sourcing of cheetah. Our policy is to source cheetah born in the wild and not captive-bred cheetah, making the sourcing of cheetah not an easy one.

Our regular visitors to Karoo should please be very patient, all good things happen in good time and we hope to have good news very soon.

Fayroush Ludick
Communications Manager - Frontier Region


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo NP to introduce lions to mark 30th anniversary
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:42 pm 
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:thumbs_up: Thanks FPR!

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo NP to introduce lions to mark 30th anniversary
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Thank you Faroush.......... :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo NP to introduce lions to mark 30th anniversary
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:20 pm 
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Your info is really appreciated Fayroush.

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo NP to introduce lions to mark 30th anniversary
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:37 am 
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Exactly the kind of information we were all waiting for! Thx Fayroush!

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo NP to introduce lions to mark 30th anniversary
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 2:30 pm 
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Hi Fayroush

Just back from a lovely visit to the Kgalagadi with good cheetah sightings, and very glad for your feedback re. cheetahs in the Karoo.

Even though we understand, we still look forward to this with great anticipation. Your first 2 points are very clear and obvious. Point 3 seems rather strange, since you have just had a cheetah population explosion in Mountain Zebra np -- you could easily transfer some from that stock -- is the problem in-breeding?
Of course Namibia has tradionally had no shortage of cheetahs being hunted, shot, captured on livestock farms -- I understand they are readily available at reasonable prices -- are you concerned about different genetic material not wanted to mix with our local cheetahs in SA?

Thanks for the good news!

God bless,

Friedrich von Hörsten

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Last edited by Friedrich von Hörsten on Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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