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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:45 pm
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Location: Port Elizabeth
Well it looks like just the three of us so sad maybe us three must walk together so that we can enjoy the walk instead of hearing "we must keep moving"
But the main question is WHY do they want to introduce lions (not because they were there a hundred years ago) and what impact will they have on the mountain zebra's that were almost extinct and so I would have thought they would be classed as protected species. The more I think about it the more I think that the idea is cash related, "lets see the lions chow a mountain zebra" would bring in more tourists then "lets see the mountain zebra's". Very disappointed about the whole thing


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 9:27 am
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I'm very surprised about your reaction. :shock: :? :hmz:
ALthough lion reintroduction will most likely generate more tourism income (some to be used for park expansion maybe? it seems that the park expansion budget has been considerably reduced recently : see last SANPARKS annual report), reintroducing lions & managing them as part of a meta-population would certainly play a key role towards restoring resilient karoo ecosystems.

Such a target should be acknowledged and praised. :clap: :thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:

Joël

PS: as far as I am aware (IUCN red list), the cape moutain zebra and the lion are both threatened species. :whistle:


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:47 pm 
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I think Imberbe answered it best:
Quote:
SANParks has more than just a tourism mandate. They are the primary body in the country tasked with preserving our entire natural heritage. Tourism is but part of the mandate. They also have to see to the promotion and maintenance of the natural system. This they have done, and are doing by the increase in nature areas, and rehabilitation of previously degraded systems. In such a system they strive to rehabilitate the whole system, starting from the ground up, including plants, insects, mammal, etc. It would be a sad day when tourism becomes so strong, that it blocks this mandate. The predators play an important role in the whole ecology and functioning of such a natural system. They are truly the apex species, and their presence and well being is but the result of the whole system being in balance. As such, the predators such as lion should naturally be returned to as much of its previous range as possible, and to as many parks as is feasible.

Increasing the space available to predators also play an important role in the preservation of the species. Now, I have no illusions that the Karoo NP will hold enough lions to have a dramatic effect on the well being of the entire lions population of Southern Africa. But each extra reserve helps in increasing the already small footprint these magnificent animals have in their once huge distribution area. If I need to stay behind a fence to help in this ... so be it. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:32 pm
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DuQues, Joel and Imberbe's :clap: well said. Why do we humans always think about ourselves first and then only think about animals, birds, plants etc. National Parks and Reserves are primary for biodiversity conservation and to restore systems as it was before we humans turned everything upside down. The last lion in the western cape was shot and killed between 1842 and 1850 close to Prins Albert, and according to historic journals, lions were abundant in the Beaufort West area. Hence the place names Leeurivier, Gamka river etc. (Gamka meaning lion in the SAN language).

Lions are listed on the Threatened and Protected Species List (TOPS) and should receive more protection. Lions are being persecuted almost all over africa, now some forum members want to be selfish and petition against lion in the Karoo. Shame on you. :shock: Why dont we all rather support the initiative of SANParks to fullfill its mandate of protection our biomes and natural systems.


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:30 pm 
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:clap: Think it's a great idea to get lion back in the Karoo.
There are still enough other nature reserves to walk in.

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:22 pm 
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Hi Jonjon, Mant and Stoffel

I felt like saying, ``Go to Hell!'' to you guys (tongue-in-cheeck of course!), but maybe somebody else will get upset too!
I can sympathize with your sentiments, yet am chuffed that the lions are back at last -- it lends that extra `wild' feeling to an already beautiful landscape -- you look over your shoulder every now and then, because there might just be a REAL LION stalking you...
By the way, I meant the introduction -- why don't you do a few trips to `Die Hel' for weekends -- the place is 10x as beautiful and you may not hear a car for a few days. As for walking, try a walk up the Gamka valley -- I flushed a caracal there not too long ago. Just be aware that the baboons rip tents open if they can see food inside...
Hope to meet you guys in the Karoo before long!
God bless,

Friedrich von Hörsten

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:29 pm 
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Location: Johannesburg
Hi,

I am actually glad that they are releasing lions into the Karoo.

I think it is a great idea :thumbs_up:

All I said was that I'm a bit disappointed that we can't walk around anymore :(

I'm not the one that wants to sign a petition against them :evil:

So I don't know what everybody is getting so upset about.

I love going to the Karoo even if it means having lions there or not :)

Samantha

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 10:47 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:45 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Port Elizabeth
I dont think the zebra will be too happy about the lions and have we enough mountain zebra now that they can be hunted. When I visit the park I hope to see the lions, I am just raising a point that not everyone is estatic about the lions, I am all for returning the parks to their former "glory" but how far do we go. Do we tear down the fences and let the thousands of buck migrate on their traditional routes. All I want to say is it is a shame that I cannot walk at my own pace with my wife and enjoy the beauty of the Karroo in a safe environment. Last words: Hunters are keen conservationists as long as they can shoot them.


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:43 am 
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Junior Virtual Ranger
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Location: Somerset West
Morning Jonjon and Manta

Thank you for not getting upset with me -- I can understand your how you feel!
Another point that underlines your concerns: Karoo NP will never be the same again!

It used to be a STOPOVER en route to Kruger, Johannesburg or Cape Town.
It will now become a DESTINATION once the first lion pics appear on the internet!
That means MORE visitors, MORE cars, which means LESS peace, LESS quiet.
Fortunately I suspect that the low density of wildlife will keep the noisier elements away, and only true wildlife lovers will stay for extended periods of time, so hopefully it will be a WIN-WIN situation for all of us.

God bless,

Friedrich von Hörsten

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:03 pm 
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the lions are there they will just be released on the 11nth of November...


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:45 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Port Elizabeth
looks like I must put away my walking shoes :cry: :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:32 pm
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Hi jonjon, I am sure you dont have to put away your walking shoes,there are surely many more places where a person can walk.


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:09 pm 
How many lions are there.


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:45 pm
Posts: 73
Location: Port Elizabeth
Kapokbos wrote:
Hi jonjon, I am sure you dont have to put away your walking shoes,there are surely many more places where a person can walk.


There is only one Karroo Park :( Walking around PE is no the same maybe I should go down to Ebb and Flo but the Karroo is really magic


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:35 pm 
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Location: Grahamstown, Eastern Cape
jonjon, Camdeboo National Park (Graaff Reinet) can be your new hiking park. It's stunning, it's in the karoo, the views are spectacular and there is now accommodation in the park.

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