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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:50 am 
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RobertT wrote:
It makes no difference what the percentage is, it is not allowed, finish and klaar. I also think it is selfish of the person with the drone, because they know it would be against the rules and also they did not care about any of the other people using the facilities. So yes, the rangers have more important things to do than police people with drones, so leave your drones at home and stop transgressing the rules.


Without condoning to use of drones in parks, I just feel the need to ask to be pointed to the rule that forbids the use of drones, especially as is shown in the video, where the drone is launched from a camp/designated "get-out" spot, it doesn't infringe on anyone's privacy and the drone doesn't disturb any wildlife.

I know it could be argued that the video is edited and any instances of it disturbing animals left out, etc, but I think we need to be careful of accusing someone of breaking the rules, just because he was doing something that could become a problem if everyone did it. IMO, if we want to prevent a dozen drones jostling for space above every pride of lions, the first step would be to amend the rules, expressly banning drones. Then the parks authority would have a case for "taking action"...


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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:53 am 
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Ubejani, the tone of your post is definitely not in accordance with the rules of these forums, nor in the spirit of these forums. We accept you are new here, and trust from here on, you will take part in civil debate around this, and other issues.

@ all - let us get back to the topic at hand now.

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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:01 am 
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Thanks ubejani, you gave me a good Monday morning laff that I sorely needed! :thumbs_up:

Maybe I should take mine to Newlands and fly it around Dan Carter when the Crusaders visit. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:37 am 
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squirrel_asc wrote:
RobertT wrote:
It makes no difference what the percentage is, it is not allowed, finish and klaar. I also think it is selfish of the person with the drone, because they know it would be against the rules and also they did not care about any of the other people using the facilities. So yes, the rangers have more important things to do than police people with drones, so leave your drones at home and stop transgressing the rules.


Without condoning to use of drones in parks, I just feel the need to ask to be pointed to the rule that forbids the use of drones, especially as is shown in the video, where the drone is launched from a camp/designated "get-out" spot, it doesn't infringe on anyone's privacy and the drone doesn't disturb any wildlife.

I know it could be argued that the video is edited and any instances of it disturbing animals left out, etc, but I think we need to be careful of accusing someone of breaking the rules, just because he was doing something that could become a problem if everyone did it. IMO, if we want to prevent a dozen drones jostling for space above every pride of lions, the first step would be to amend the rules, expressly banning drones. Then the parks authority would have a case for "taking action"...


:hmz: :hmz: :hmz:

23. BEHAVIOUR – Behaving in an offensive, improper, indecent or disorderly manner including the
playing of any radio, compact disc player, music system, musical system or instrument, or in any
way cause of any noise in any manner likely to disturb any species or specimen or other person is
strictly prohibited
and will be fined if not adhered to. The hindering, intimidating or obstructing of
an authorized official in the execution if his/her duties or the performance of his/her functions will
not be tolerated and is subject to a penalty. Violation, refusal or failure to obey or comply with any
prohibition, request or instruction imposed by these regulations or by the management authority
or authorized official will result in prosecution;

14. FEEDING OF WILDLIFE IS PROHIBITED – The feeding or intentional disturbance of wildlife is a
serious offence.
By feeding any wildlife you are potentially SIGNING THEIR DEATH WARRANT, AS
THEY MAY BECOME DEPENDENT AND OFTEN BECOME AGGRESSIVE AND DANGEROUS, AND THUS
HAVE TO BE EXTERMINATED

When you in you car and the animal does not like having you around they can move away as you cannot follow them ,now with a drone where does the animal go as it can be followed anywhere.

Lastly I have a reply from KTP where they ask that any drone in the air or on the ground must be reported ASAP to the camp managers, that includes the bush camps as well as they are strictly not allowed
Quote:
We do see it in a very serious light and I guarantee you that action will be taken against the culprits.
, taken from the E-mail

squirrel_asc you are welcome to use one , but don't be upset when you are reported and fined :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:44 am 
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Thanks PRWIN, was also in process of copying that same rule. Think the rule is all encompassing and self explanatory, we could split hairs with wording, but I think the spirit of the rule is understood. :thumbs_up:

If also the drone landed in an area not covered by the safely alight or demarcated area, the person would have to transgress the rules to retrieve such or forego their equipment.


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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:02 pm 
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PRWIN wrote:
squirrel_asc you are welcome to use one , but don't be upset when you are reported and fined :wink:

If you read my post properly, you will note that I don't condone it, and that I can completely foresee that it can become a problem. Thus, I don't appreciate your little jab. :evil:

Anyway, thank you for pointing out the rule, although I have to say that using that rule to fine someone operating a drone could be open for debate. Yes, drones absolutely have the potential to cause a disturbance (and that is why I would support a ban), but I don't see any evidence of disturbance of either people or animals in the video's posted and it is clear that he launched it from places where he WAS allowed to get out, so it might to be as easy and clear-cut as everyone seems to think.

Do we really want to lynch him because of what other people might have done in his place?

I supposed I just find it interesting how quickly something can go from "Should this be allowed? - it could become a problem if everyone and his neighbour did it", to "FINE THE EVIL DRONE OPERATOR!!!" But I guess that is the nature of internet forums... :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:24 pm 
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It should be pointed out that one of the videos shows someone launching a drone at the intersection of one of the bore hole loops in the Aoub. The person had to get out of his car to launch and retrieve the drone in an area where doing so isn't allowed. This is a clear cut example of one instance where the park rules were completely ignored.

I personally don't think this is about fining people or lynching an individual, it is about the concept of using drones in the parks.

What worries me, whether the films show this or not, is that there is a huge potential for drone operators to invade the comfort zone of an animal. Currently, with the existing "traditional" wildlife viewing methods it is the animals choice how close they come to you. If you get too close to a lion in the road then he/she will just move away till they are comfortable again, often this is out of sight, and you lose the sighting. With drones you no longer give the animal this choice. There will be good drone operators who respect the animal, as there are good drivers, but there will also be bad drone operators...as there are bad drivers who drive off road, and here lies the danger. It is easy to asses the damage from a car 10m off road into the river, but how do we asses the damage of a drone flying over resting lions?

Hence appropriate measures need to be put into place for every bodies benefit, both animal and human. What measures these are are for SANParks to decide upon.

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Please use the online form or download the spreadsheet to report leopard sightings.
You can also download a free copy of the identification guides for KTP and Augrabies.
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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:33 pm 
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Another issue is the privacy of people in showers and loos that are open to the air.

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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:23 pm 
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AstroMatt wrote:
I personally don't think this is about fining people or lynching an individual, it is about the concept of using drones in the parks.

What worries me, whether the films show this or not, is that there is a huge potential for drone operators to invade the comfort zone of an animal. Currently, with the existing "traditional" wildlife viewing methods it is the animals choice how close they come to you. If you get too close to a lion in the road then he/she will just move away till they are comfortable again, often this is out of sight, and you lose the sighting. With drones you no longer give the animal this choice. There will be good drone operators who respect the animal, as there are good drivers, but there will also be bad drone operators...as there are bad drivers who drive off road, and here lies the danger. It is easy to asses the damage from a car 10m off road into the river, but how do we asses the damage of a drone flying over resting lions?

Hence appropriate measures need to be put into place for every bodies benefit, both animal and human. What measures these are are for SANParks to decide upon.


AstroMatt that was my thought too if the drone is used for animal photography and not only for a landscape view.

I've seen videos taken by drones that showed minimum disturbance of the animals or even birds, but as soon as the drone move closer to get a better image the picture chase and the animal will flee to safety.

In the one video the photographer steered the drone towards an elephant near a tree and when getting closer you can see a troop of baboon fleeing from the tree in all directions scared like hell. If a predator was close by it could have meant the end of the baboon. It's possible that the photographer was not aware of the baboons in the tree and only saw them when they started fleeing and that is exactly the point why drones can disturb wild life and cause physical harm without the intend of the photographer. The baboons must have had some revenge plan because the next moment the drone crashed in front of the elephant and could not take off again. :twisted:

In Kgalagadi and KNP its difficult to know what's behind the dune and you can easily chase a springbok herd or smaller mammals in panic straight towards the predator out of sight.

I am sure there will be numerous request for drone filming / photography in the future, but just as I need to abide to the rules and cannot hike on my own or take a drive along the maintenance roads, these photographers need to go through the right channels and apply for filming rights if they feel strongly about their hobby. The park will be able to provide assistance if they feel they can approve your application. The general code of conduct for filming can be find in the following link:

http://www.sanparks.org/docs/general/aplication_form.pdf

A quote from the first paragraph can be viewed below:

Quote:
Code of Conduct for Filmmakers/Photographers in National Parks
1. Never cause any physical harm or anxiety to any wild creature.
1.1. Avoid using sound recordings to attract certain species for prolonged periods.
1.2. Accept that the welfare of subjects is more important than the sequence.
1.3. Ensure that filming does not result in the consequential predation or lessened
reproduction success of the species involved.
1.4. Vacate a scene immediately should subjects show signs of abnormal stress.
1.5. Report the inhumane and illegal treatment of wild animals to the relevant authorities
whenever it is encountered.
1.6. In the case of predators, care should be taken not to disrupt its hunting techniques for
prolonged periods so that it becomes impossible for the animal to feed itself adequately.
2. Endeavour to leave the environment as it was found.
2.1. Minimize interference in and the disruption of natural processes as far as possible.
2.2. Cause minimal damage to the habitat.
2.3. Stick to recognised roads and bush tracks wherever possible and not cause
unnecessary vehicle damage to the bush.
2.4. Do not traverse ecological sensitive areas in a vehicle.

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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:32 pm 
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Bush Baptist wrote:
Another issue is the privacy of people in showers and loos that are open to the air.


BB now you know why I studied that Rooiputs video in detail pausing a 100 times. Sjoe luckily no shower and sun tan scene in the video to make me famous on Youtube. :redface: :redface: :redface: :tongue:

I am also sure the guest at the Rooiputs lodge will not appreciate a drone invading their privacy after expecting a pristine wilderness area that you paid for a few hundred US$ per night to stay there. :sniper: :sniper: :sniper:

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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Dear 'Mites :)

Apologies for the delayed response in this matter. The use of drones inside(and over) national parks is prohibited, unless these are used for research or official purposes and with the prior written approval of the Park Management.

The use of drones in national parks has to be addressed specifically and the prohibition should be included as an internal rule in terms of section 52 of the Protected Areas Act. (It is not a regulation as only the Minister can make regulations for a national park.)

Technically speaking it may be that a drone is already covered under the Act. In section 1 an aircraft is defined as any type of airborne craft. Section 47 (3) provides that no person shall cause any aircraft to fly over a national park at less than 2 500 ft above the highest level of the park.

The regulations also offer some assistance. One must not intentionally disturb any animal or change the sense of place (reg 4 (1) (c) and (i)). The filming and simultaneous transmitting of photographic images by the use of any image recording or transmitting device is an activity requiring a licence on payment of a fee (reg 20 (1) (a)). The causing of noise likely to disturb game or a person is also prohibited (reg 43 (m)).

We urge guests to abide by the rules of the national parks and report law breakers to the nearest camp or gate.

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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:29 pm 
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Thanks Lesego

Now what about the drones that are controlled on the ground (e.g. radio controlled cars with camera's in them) :hmz:


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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:06 pm 
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Drone photography openly shown on Kgalagadi Sightings FB group today.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:48 am 
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Dont understand what the fuss is about they are quite unobtrusive and not noisy. seem to be very common now, the laws just need to catch up. On the flip side how good would these things be at controlling poachers which are decimating wildlife at record rates....lot more effective than current processes in place thats for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Drone Photography
Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 10:40 am 
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wayward wrote:
Dont understand what the fuss is about they are quite unobtrusive and not noisy. seem to be very common now, the laws just need to catch up. On the flip side how good would these things be at controlling poachers which are decimating wildlife at record rates....lot more effective than current processes in place thats for sure.


wayward come again, that thing is very noisy , heard it from about 200m away, If you are in the bush with no other sound I promise that thing makes a racket ,now what about my right under rule 23 where it states that no noise shall cause disturbance to other persons.


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