Skip to content

SANParks.org Forums

View unanswered posts | View active topics






Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 3
 [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:44 am
Posts: 119
Location: Belgium
Good day all ,
I would like to express here my disappointment about a specific rule of Sanparks, in the winlderness camps. We've been fond of quite secluded camps like Bitterpan or Kielikrankie for example for many years. Now , we have a child , and we understand that we'll have to wait until he turns 12 (!) before being allowed to go back in such camps. I understand the reason is that these have to remain quiet camps? We had unfortunately many experiences with noisy grown ups in the parks , and it's all about education , not age. Our son is a quite little guy and would be a very minor disturbance compared to some alcoolized (or not) adults... it's so disappointing that such a rule had been edicted.
or are there any other reason i don't know about? :(

Anyway , it's sad...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 29
I totally agree. It also seems that once the child reaches 12 you will have to book a separate unit as they don't allow sharing, obviously increasing the cost and how wise would it be to have a 12year old on their own (no communication in an unfenced camp - so more than likely one will move or bring their own sleeping attire leaving the unit empty


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:03 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:30 am
Posts: 40691
Location: Worcester, South Africa
Good day Tembe & Kgala and Andrew1nesbitt.

Please see KTP Staying with children and also Gabrielle's post here.

_________________
aquila non capit muscas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 29
And your point? We know the rules with regards to Wilderness camps - we are questioning them.

1. inconsiderate and/or lubricated adults can be just as noisy as children
2. the non-sharing rule prohibits most small families with young teens to stay due to the additional costs and/or safety issues


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:22 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:30 am
Posts: 40691
Location: Worcester, South Africa
You are welcome to question the rules. My point is that there is an existing thread re this matter.

_________________
aquila non capit muscas


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:44 am
Posts: 119
Location: Belgium
Thanks for the link , I still think this is a stupid rule

As I said before , my child is quite , not like many adults.
So reason number one is not a good one for me.
Do you really think a 5 y old would be more noisy than two 13y old, whichj are allowed??

And for the second reason given : what if I decide to book 2 units for us 3? then the rule of 2 pax maximum per unit wouldn't be broken. (1adult in a unit , 1ad+the child in the other)

Finally , about safety : once again , it's about education. KTC is also unfenced...risks are the same

so well , I still think this rule is nonsense. :doh:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:14 pm 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:31 pm
Posts: 576
Location: Benoni, RSA
T&k

I once sent an email to the park manager enquiring about whether one would be allowed children if one hired out the entire camp(this was specifically for Grootkolk) - and the reply was yes, if the entire camp was hired out,children under 12 would be accommodated,at the visitors own risk. So you don't have to wait until he is 12 to go......if you can afford to book out 4chalets/are lucky enough to be able to get 4 nights at one of the camps :lol:

You mentioned your son is quiet......my daughter is not......where does SANParks draw the line? They have designated these camps for adults only (>12 years)......I am sure they would like to stipulate that it is only sober adults but that becomes rather difficult. We knew once we had children, these camps would not be for us, unless Granny would be willing to watch our daughter for a night or two, but this is something we knew and something we accept, whether we like it or are disappointed by it, or not. It's a privilege to get to the KTP, we will enjoy it no matter where we stay......and as I have stated in the other thread, we would like to culture that love of the park in our daughter, and as such, will take her to camps where she will be happiest :thumbs_up:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:17 am
Posts: 137
Location: Pretoria
Jo wrote:
You mentioned your son is quiet......my daughter is not......where does SANParks draw the line?

Exactly.

Unfortunately I know way too many parents who would swear that their children are quiet and well-behaved and couldn't possibly cause a disturbance, while in reality they are horribly little brats. If your child is truly able to be quiet after being confined to a small space for several days, with no opportunity to burn off excess energy or explore the new and exciting surroundings, then your child is truly exceptional. The average child will become whiny and impossible in such circumstances. And unfortunately, rules aren't made for exceptions - they're made to deal with the average.

As for noisy adults:
1. There is a rule against causing a disturbance to fellow guests. If that isn't being enforced, it is a different matter altogether.
2. If one rule gets broken, it does not invalidate another, only vaguely related rule.

Please, allow those of us who are willing to pay a premium for it, the opportunity to stay in a peaceful place...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:23 am
Posts: 29
So according to Jo, it seems that safety is not the main reason for not allowing children. So if their is enough people who would like to experience these wilderness camps with their children maybe the rules can be changed whereby children are allowed but only over certain periods or at certain camps

Eg: all wilderness camps during school holidays and/or
Every even month wilderness camps in the South and every odd month in the North


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:44 am
Posts: 119
Location: Belgium
squirrel_asc wrote:
Jo wrote:
You mentioned your son is quiet......my daughter is not......where does SANParks draw the line?



Please, allow those of us who are willing to pay a premium for it, the opportunity to stay in a peaceful place...

typically the kind of comment that swows you've msunderstood me. It's not about letting a child in a confined space for several days , but just to spend a night...
but anyway...It's still my right to find it completely wrong and to write it down, even if I know it won't change a thing


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:15 pm 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:03 pm
Posts: 1314
Location: Trichardt, MP
I think the reason why the rules are questioned is that the intend was never there to introduce the rules and for some reason introduced nearly 4 years after the wilderness camps opened.

The real reason seems to be avoided, but it is definitely not safety otherwise why are children allowed in any of the camps, fenced or not fenced. Long time ago my son then 2 years old was threatened by a jackal in Nossob camp, a colleague nearly stepped on a pofadder outside his chalet in Nossob and I have encountered cape cobras in the traditional camps a few times.

The noise factor is also no reason for saying that if you exclude younger than 12 year olds the camp will remain quiet.

The only reason that could be a possibility for the change in rules is over utilization of units. One family comes with 2 young kids and want them to share a single unit or a family with in single child (18 - 20 years old) decide they can all stay in one unit making it difficult to draw the line.

In the end I see it that the reason for change was caused by the behavior of people and SANParks allowing extra bookings that resulted in this change. On the other hand I don't understand that if you book the full camp you can bring along the kids. Then as I said above it is a question of getting full payment for all the units and the safety of the child is now of no interest.

Why can't the rule change back to before allowing children and stricter control introduced about the number of people per unit to avoid over crowding? If you only booked one unit and arrive with your child, you will be required to find accommodation outside the park loosing your booking or double up per child as a fine. Next time you will make sure to book the right number of units. The old relaxed rule of allowing an extra child per unit paying half price also caught us off guard, but the following time I knew better.

Just because a rule was implement a few years back does not mean it cannot be change back to accommodate families.

_________________
KTP a place where you can quench your thirst


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:44 am
Posts: 119
Location: Belgium
I couldn't say better
+100000 :clap:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 4:27 pm 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:03 pm
Posts: 1314
Location: Trichardt, MP
squirrel_asc wrote:

Please, allow those of us who are willing to pay a premium for it, the opportunity to stay in a peaceful place...


Sorry squirrel asc,

I do not want to attack you, but surely some people don't have more rights than others to a peaceful place. If families with young kids want to stay at these camps they need to book all 4 units while lucky you only need to book one.

As you said if rules are enforced the noisy kids also need to keep quiet just as much as the adults, so why do you foresee a problem.

I have seen a few adults that feels it is there right to disturb the peace, so hope next time you book there is not a guy with a drone staying next to you. Kids are not match against the latest gadget toys adults use.

_________________
KTP a place where you can quench your thirst


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:48 pm 
Offline
Senior Virtual Ranger
Senior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:53 pm
Posts: 3781
Location: Cambridge, MA (and home from home in Darling, WC)
OK, I'm one of those selfish, single adults who had a most unpleasant experience on my first visit to Grootkolk, when the rest of the camp was occupied by 4 adults with 5 children under the age of six. They occupied three of the tents and had also taken over the communal area and their attitude to me, when I complained about the noise and their small children running wild, was, you're only one person, so too d@*m bad. We and our children will do whatever we please. No respect for the rights of others at all. And given how large that group was, the camp's excellent tourist assistant was basically told the same. This group simply hijacked the whole camp.

Now I travel a great and expensive distance to visit KTP (airfare alone usually costs me close to $2000) -- plus I also have the expense of a hired car and pay the higher international WildCard rates as well -- for the priviledge of peace and quiet in wilderness camps and I think that I have an absolute right to expect to get what I pay for.

With noisy adults -- and I've experienced a few of them in wilderness camps as well -- you have a bit more leverage. But with children the arguement is always that children need to let off steam and must be tolerated and that if I object then I'm an intolerant child hater. The fact that parents have an obligation to respect the rights of others to a peaceul and quiet camp is completely overlooked.

I agree entirely with Squirrel asc. I'm 100% in favour of the rule of no children under age 12 in KTP wilderness camps, which was instituted after my appalling experience at Grootkolk, about which I complained strongly at the time. I applaud SANParks for being being so proactive and responding to complaints about uphappy experiences such as mine.

_________________
RSA 2014
20-16 Oct Joburg
27-30 Oct Mapungubwe: Limpopo forest tented camp, Leokwe camp
31 Oct-1 Nov Pafuri River Camp
2-15 Nov KNP: Punda Maria, Sirheni, Olifants, Tamboti, Skukuza
16-22 Nov Cape Town
23 Nov-20 Jan Darling


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: wilderness camps & children
Unread postPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2007 12:44 am
Posts: 119
Location: Belgium
Once again, it"s all about éducation. Not age. I told You guys my 2 very unpleasant experiences with adults in the camps last year...while my kid was quiet as a stone


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

Webcams Highlights

Addo Nossob Orpen Satara
Addo Nossob Orpen Satara
Submitted by Foxy at 13:56:48 Submitted by rolle at 13:41:05 Submitted by Mellory at 12:24:59 Submitted by Lindyvee at 13:30:45