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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:13 pm 
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JenB wrote:
Oh Siobain, that is heart wrenching... :cry:

I have to agree with Carol, you can only appeal the their humanity. Legally, I don't think there is much you can do. If you signed up for certain rules they will enforce it to the letter, not because of you but because of those they've said no to before and those to come.

If you know of a Body corporate meeting coming up, just pitch up and address them in person, you never know.

Praying that Tessie can spend her last few months with you. :pray:


Must agree with Jen, body corporate are only enforcing the rules that the tenants of the complex made up and agreed to abide by. If there is a body corporate meeting coming up you could get the rule changed if enough people agree to the change, the rules are after all made by the tenants.


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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Just. When I thought the fireworks were over, just now neighbors up the street started setting off a lot of big ones, sounds like bombs. Gal in a state, had to give her some rescue as she's climbing all over me. Dam these fireworks!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Do animals grieve?
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Background: We had to have a cat put to sleep, (primary organ failure) that we had adopted in his twilight years (Jack - aged about 17 years) - he in fact was with us for 2 and a half years. He and our cat, Munchkin, got along just fine, in fact, Munchkin often took the time to "groom" Jack! Now, we find that with Jack gone, Munchkin howls / youwls for no real reason in one or other room in the house. He also seems very needy - wanting attention almost all of the time.........I have in fact googled this behaviour and found that in fact animals do grieve.............does anyone else have any similar experiences to relate.........??

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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:27 am 
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Good morn everyone; nice and still here, after a hectic rush. Hope everyone is sleeping soundly, in deeeep sleep. :D

Left with my thoughts on what avenue forward we will follow as the Trustees in our complex are still stubbornly refusing to allow my SO's twelve-year-old bulldog, Tessie, to spend her last days in comfort with us. Tessie came to us in late October after the person who was looking after her in Bloemfontein chose to emigrate. My SO raised Tessie from a pup, so understandably hasn't the heart to euthanase her. Instead, we chose to bring her to our complex.

We feel that the Trustees' refusal - despite two more in-depth, explanatory letters from us - is more a personal thing: perhaps to slap us down and parent us into following their rules, regardless that it is a GOD-created life (not a stone or wall) that they are deciding upon. Some people have suggested that we may be fighting a losing battle - seemingly body corporates have more power than we realise - but I feel strongly in my heart that we need to be there for the voiceless, who cannot explain what they need. Our three dogs (including Tessie) have never created a negative impact upon our complex, which had accepted the first two without too much trouble.

My dad always told me that there comes times in life when one MUST take a stand for what one believes in, and I feel that time is NOW! Why should a group of trustees be allowed to decide the fate of a dog's life, simply because they choose to - they really have no reasonable way to say no as our dogs are model citizens! No excessive barking, all the waste products are cleaned up regularly, they don't harrass anyone, and they spend almost all of their time indoors. Several people have commented that they don't even know our dogs are there!

Tessie is so cute, and she deserves to live. She is a finnicky dog in the sense that she gets highly-strung (but not noisy) and morose when with people she doesn't know; hence it most probably wouldn't be in her interest to give her to any of the kind people who have offered to take her. Rather, my SO wants the privilege of not only keeping Tessie calm and happy, but also being able to continue loving her in return; until such time as the Great Creator decides it is time for her to pass. I don't feel my SO is asking too much of people. The very same people who said that having two dogs was not in the best interests of the complex, only to agree when we appealed to them. And, we haven't disappointed that decision in any way since then (2 years ago).

Well, we'll make a decision on which avenue to follow as soon as I get some more information
. :hmz:

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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:35 am 
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OWN, I truly admire you wanting to make a stand. :)

I've dealt with various HOA's before, although on the architectural side and I have to admit they can be very difficult if they want to be.

How did they find out about you having Tessie? Did someone complain or did you approach them? One single complaint would completely overshadow all your efforts.

Firstly, exactly what does the rules say? Does it distinctly limit the amount of animals one may keep or is it a broad sort of rule for them to make up as they go? They seem to favor broad rules which they can interpret as they wish.

Secondly, almost anything you want to do in an estate requires the consent of your neighbours. Set up a standard letter stating that the person understands your position and that they have no problem with you keeping Tessie (include a cute pic :) ). It's far easier to get someone to sign something already written that to get them to write. Get as many to sign it as possible. Your immediate neighbours will be your biggest allies. If you can get them to also state that your dogs are well behaved and don't bother them, that will go a long way.
Drive through the complex and find other dog owners to support you too.

Do a bit of investigation. Are there anyone else keeping 3 dogs? If you can find one person that was allowed to, they've set a precedent and in that case they cannot refuse for you to keep 3.

In general HOA's want you to abide and do as they say. If they realize that you are serious and will not take it lying down they just might decide to cut the chase and grant you permission.

Holding thumbs!! :pray:

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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:58 am 
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Hi OWN, every time I read about Tessie I get so upset, can't believe the powers that be cannot treat this like the special case it is .

Have you considered asking people in the complex that are in favor of Tessie staying to sign a petition, and taking it with you to your meeting with body corporate . Just a thought.

I do hope they allow Tessie to stay. So upsetting this situation Good luck and keep us posted.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:02 am 
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I sincerely hope that the Trustees give their consent soon Onewithnature! I can just imagine the unnecessary stress you two have because of these heartless people! :doh:

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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:13 am 
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Hey Own, really do feel for your situation. But also feel you are being a little unfair on trustees, they did not decide on the fate of the dog, your partner and her ex did that previously, the trustees are now the in the difficult position. The. Trustees had these rules before you came along and you guys also got the 2nd dog knowing he 1st dog was still out there. So now because you didn't know how things would turn out you are blaming the trustees for your situation IMO, they did not have a say in the acquiring of any of your pets and you knew the rules when you chose the complex, I chose a complex where the body corporate was strong and enforced the rules, they are better run and more successful :thumbs_up:

The trustees are very much like our mods on the forum, they don't make the rules, just enforce them only difference is the rules at complex can be changed if you get a meeting together the tenants can vote to change the rule. If you decide to fight the rule, you are fighting a rule yourself and your neighbors put in and agreed to have complex run by, the body corporate would probably have to go the legal route to stop a precedent being set ( your dogs may be fine, but can you vouch that all dogs and owners in future will be and then what other rule can be ignored if it doesn't suit?)
If the body corporate have no option but the legal route, what it means is money from levies and savings (yours and neighbors) is used to pay lawyers to fight the case and depending on durations and costs could have implications on your neighbors etc in the way of raised levies or special levies due to unforeseen legal costs. So best way in my opinion is to get the rule changed by way of vote, write or speak to chairman of body corporate asking for time to get a vote done or send 1 dog away till you can get a vote done.

Good luck and hope it all works out positively. :thumbs_up:


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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:24 am 
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Robert, I don't think OWN is blaming the body corporate ,but just seeking a bit of compastion and understanding of a upsetting situation

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 Post subject: Re: Do animals grieve?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:27 am 
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We've seen it too.........even seen it when just one of them is not in the same room as the other one.

We have three cats and the elder one gets along with both the other cats, but the two younger ones don't like each other. Whenever one of the younger ones is not in the same room as the older cat, he will go looking for him.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:35 am 
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RT is right IMO OWN. :k

Best is to fight this on the inside, legal action will just be a waste of time and money particularly if the rules are clear. They might also be bound by certain municipal bylaws - size of the properties determine the number of pets one may keep and such.

:idea: If all else fail, get rid of the complex house and buy one where you can make up the rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Do animals grieve?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:43 am 
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When our dog Grant had to be put down due to cancer Missy was very sad as she was looking for him throughout the house and garden. She lied on the front stoep for months staring at the gate as if she thought to herself - he was coming around the corner any minute. Even though she has accepted the new dog and they get along well every time we mention Grant’s name she still shakes her little butt and her eyes light up and she looks at us almost like asking a question “but where is he?’ So yes from this personal experience I would say that animals do grieve.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:44 am 
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My apologies if I am reading it wrong, I am under the impression Own is saying the body corporate is not allowing this and he is questioning on how they can decide the fate of the animal and that he believes it is personal.

I am saying it is not their decision, never has been or will be, they just enforce the rules. They are volunteers in a complex giving up their time to make sure complex runs how every voted it should, I am on a body corporate, and ours does not do personal agenda, we do what all the tenants expect, enforce the rules without fear or favor, there are no exceptions to the rules. I am advocating changing a rule, not breaking a rule, it has a same result in this case except 1 is right and the other wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: Do animals grieve?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:01 am 
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Most certainly animals grieve.

Same thing happens to my dogs, every time we have to let one go...
When Sabrina died I let Boris say goodbye, he understood and my face was red from him licking away my tears. He was my rock through a very difficult time.

I think animals have exactly the same emotions as we have. They feel sad at times and happy too. They long, they grieve, they love. The only difference between us and animals are that we live by different rules and we speak in a language we can understand, they communicate too just we don't always get it.
Animals are amazing. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a pet?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:12 am 
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This is my last comment on tis situation, I believe that every case is not black and white, it's not as if OWN wants to park a extra car or caravan in the complex that is going to hinder the neighbors. We are talking about a living breathing animal here.

I feel that if the dog is not going to disturb the neighbors, surely a exception to the rules could be made on merit.

Just seems such a pity that man made rules should be so uncompromising . :( :(

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KNP 2- 16 May 2014


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