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 Post subject: Re: Quick, effective, convenient access to sightings in Krug
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:51 pm 
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I want to throw my 5c into the mix.
As a KNP visitor since the 70's I can guarantee that this kind of behaviour i.e. speeding, traffic jams, hanging out of cars etc.. has always been around. What modern media has done is create much more awareness about it. You never heard of those things because, well there was no means of broadcasting it. The "sighting speedsters" have always been there and probably always will be.
Personally I belong to a FB group where I like to read up in the evenings what people have seen that day. Do I race out the next day to that spot, no, because animals move around.

And to be labeled a "pirate viewer" just because someone comes across another car watching something.... seriously? Just as selfish in my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Quick, effective, convenient access to sightings in Krug
Unread postPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:55 pm 
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GlenD wrote:
I want to throw my 5c into the mix.
As a KNP visitor since the 70's I can guarantee that this kind of behaviour i.e. speeding, traffic jams, hanging out of cars etc.. has always been around. What modern media has done is create much more awareness about it. You never heard of those things because, well there was no means of broadcasting it. The "sighting speedsters" have always been there and probably always will be.
Personally I belong to a FB group where I like to read up in the evenings what people have seen that day. Do I race out the next day to that spot, no, because animals move around.

And to be labeled a "pirate viewer" just because someone comes across another car watching something.... seriously? Just as selfish in my opinion.

:clap: :clap: :clap:
:thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Quick, effective, convenient access to sightings in Krug
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Location: Pretoria
Hi all,

I totally agree with Scipio without saying that the app was a bad idea. I just think it is being misused and that people dont actually realize that by constantly waiting for sightings on the app, they are actually ruining their time in kruger and defeating the point. On the other hand, it can come in handy if its your last day in kruger and you just want to see this one specific animal that you havnt yet, and through the app you still manage to.

So whats the answer then? For starters it would be good to appeal to all users to use it more responsibly. This, however I think will only have limited results.
Therefore I would suggest something more radical. I use the sightings app daily when not in kruger just for interests sake and to plan my next trip better regarding where to go for which animals. I, however never use it when in Kruger as it spoils it for me. So to stop this crazy rush to a sighting which spoils it for everyone and is dangerous for both man and animal, but to still be able to see where the animals hang out at certain times of the year etc and for planning purposes, why not delay the updates by say one day. This would in essence replace the current sighting boards in kruger with technology, without losing the appeal of the app, and of course preventing/ diminishing the crazy rush to a sighting.

Obviously, I fully understand that this is only my opinion and is likely not going to be taken seriously, however I do appeal to the relevant authorities to merely consider this and weigh the positives against the negatives, keeping in mind that this is just going to get worse, and definitely also ultimately damages the kruger image and experience,

Thank You
Bushbob


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 Post subject: Re: Quick, effective, convenient access to sightings in Krug
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Nobody can conclusively say that this app has resulted in more people rushing to sightings or not. This practice has been in existence for decades. As a kid, I remember families using multiple vehicles and two-way radios to share sightings and rush to meet at the 'good' ones. The sightings boards have also resulted in this to an extent. To say that it spoils the essence of Kruger is from a completely subjective point of view, and should be expressed as such.

We live in an ever changing society, and many (if not most) of us are resistant to change and often express this resistance in a negative manner. I myself have many times expressed dissatisfaction with the 'modernisation' of KNP, however I eventually succumb to the fact that a lot of these are, for the most part, beneficial to more people than not, and almost occur out of necessity. I eventually become accustomed to the changes and they become my norm. Until the next change that is :)

This app must certainly be a fantastic tool for a foreign visitor who may only ever visit the KNP once in their lifetime, and want to maximise their sightings potential in that visit. Additionally, the data acquired by the use of the apps/media platforms in question, surely may be used in many other beneficial ways and not isolated to tourism; such as assisting the Ground Hornbill/Wild Dog Projects, and many more avenues that I'm sure are still untapped.

As with anything, the choice is up to the individual to use, or not. I'm not disapproving of the debate thereof, in fact I encourage debate, but I do feel that a line has been crossed in terms of the critism (or perhaps my perception thereof) that has been directed towards the developers and administrators of the app, particularly since they are positively active members of this forum's community.

I neither condone nor disapprove of the app, and realise that KNP is there for all of us to enjoy, in our own way, however that may be, and provided it is done so within the parameters of the laws. I therefore feel that those of us (including me) that prefer things 'old school', shouldn't have an elitist attitude and enforce our ways on those that prefer all of the 'mod cons'.

#thatsall :)

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Letaba 1/2/3/4 April 2014

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 Post subject: Re: Quick, effective, convenient access to sightings in Krug
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:42 pm 
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bushbob wrote:
Obviously, I fully understand that this is only my opinion and is likely not going to be taken seriously, however I do appeal to the relevant authorities to merely consider this and weigh the positives against the negatives, keeping in mind that this is just going to get worse, and definitely also ultimately damages the kruger image and experience,


I take every suggestion, question and comment seriously. So don't worry, I did take yours into consideration seriously.

Ian Grant wrote:
Nobody can conclusively say that this app has resulted in more people rushing to sightings or not. This practice has been in existence for decades. As a kid, I remember families using multiple vehicles and two-way radios to share sightings and rush to meet at the 'good' ones. The sightings boards have also resulted in this to an extent. To say that it spoils the essence of Kruger is from a completely subjective point of view, and should be expressed as such.

We live in an ever changing society, and many (if not most) of us are resistant to change and often express this resistance in a negative manner. I myself have many times expressed dissatisfaction with the 'modernisation' of KNP, however I eventually succumb to the fact that a lot of these are, for the most part, beneficial to more people than not, and almost occur out of necessity. I eventually become accustomed to the changes and they become my norm. Until the next change that is :)

This app must certainly be a fantastic tool for a foreign visitor who may only ever visit the KNP once in their lifetime, and want to maximise their sightings potential in that visit. Additionally, the data acquired by the use of the apps/media platforms in question, surely may be used in many other beneficial ways and not isolated to tourism; such as assisting the Ground Hornbill/Wild Dog Projects, and many more avenues that I'm sure are still untapped.

As with anything, the choice is up to the individual to use, or not. I'm not disapproving of the debate thereof, in fact I encourage debate, but I do feel that a line has been crossed in terms of the critism (or perhaps my perception thereof) that has been directed towards the developers and administrators of the app, particularly since they are positively active members of this forum's community.

I neither condone nor disapprove of the app, and realise that KNP is there for all of us to enjoy, in our own way, however that may be, and provided it is done so within the parameters of the laws. I therefore feel that those of us (including me) that prefer things 'old school', shouldn't have an elitist attitude and enforce our ways on those that prefer all of the 'mod cons'.

#thatsall :)


I think that is well put. Thanks for supporting and understanding!


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 Post subject: Re: Quick, effective, convenient access to sightings in Krug
Unread postPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:54 pm 
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@ ossendryver
Thanks and I hope you understand were Im coming from.

@ Ian Grant.
If you say that this 'rushing' to sightings is subjective whether it spoils the Kruger experience or not, I am fully with you and like I stated it is just my opinion. However a point has come now where the problem no longer is whether it spoils it or not, but that it creates serious problems, for example people rushing and killing animals, too many vehicles at a sight leading to frustrations where people even get out of their vehicles, being unable to pass by to continue to a camp you need to be at before gate closing etc, you get the idea. Saying this has taken place for decades is correct, just then two-way radios would only be two-ways, and sighting boards were not accessible on demand in the vehicle. So the rush then would maybe be 5 to ten cars. The fact of the matter is the sightings app has taken to to the next level as it is now accessible to nearly everyone all the time. As such it has become a problem.

Change is good, and as I think I have made clear previously, I appreciate the existence of the app, my problem is with how people are using it. So no resistance to change just to the negative ones - which is not subjective!

Saying that foreign visitors need to maximise their sightings is maybe a little subjective. We have over the years taken countless tourists to the kruger and without exception they all enjoyed the special sighting and actually themselves got more annoyed than we did with too many tourists/vehicles at a sighting. A tourist too will rather have a sighting of a lion that walked over the road than a group of lions next to the road but blocked by a traffic jam, with people screaming and shouting. My suggestion of delaying by say 1 day would cause no problems for the projects mentioned.

As I state again, I fully appreciate the app as I too use it daily for reference purposes. I do not criticize the developers/administrators, and in fact would not want it done away with. It should just be managed well to prevent serious problems in the future. I truly hope the relevant authorities understand that I am in no way attacking them.

In essence what I am saying is looking into the future, more people will be going to kruger, more people will get accustomed to technology and as we can already see the app is growing by the day. So, without sounding paranoid, I do see the potential for a situation where a special sighting is seen in say the skukuza area, posted and read by literally hundreds of motorists in the area in peak season who then rush (to be there before the others) to the sighting and in their excitement run over the one or the other animal. When reaching it, they find a huge traffic jam and are extremely frustrated. Ultimately what has happened is a huge traffic jam has been build, closing of the road. Hardly anyone can see the special sighting and as such nearly everyone is frustrated and in the heat of the moment tempers flair. You can add what you like to this scenario.

The above is really not sucked from the thumb but rather extrapolation of what is happening right now. Yes we must all enjoy kruger in our own way, but when your enjoyment is at the detriment of mine, I wont be a happy person. I hope this clears my stance on this better.

Thank You
Bushbob


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 Post subject: Re: Quick, effective, convenient access to sightings in Krug
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:21 pm 
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Location: Worcester , Cape
I , too , am one of those , who are against using this modern tech in Kruger , because beleive me , poachers are also certainly making use of it .

However , why can this technology not also be used in such a way that EVERYBODY gains by it ?

This morning , at Klopperfontein , up in the north of Kruger , I was witness to someone driving off-road , to go an view a dead elephant , lying about 150 meters from the road-side . He drove through the bush , right round the carcass , got out of the vehicle , took pics , stayed for about 5 minutes , then drove back to the road again . When confronted , he was quite arrogant , saying he knew it was against the rules , but so what ? Needless to say , I took pics of him , and reported to Punda , and as far as I know , rangers are on the lookout for him .
Oh , by the way , yesterday morning , there were two lions feeding off the carcass , and they were still around today :big_eyes:

Back to topic , I feel that such sightings should also be reported on to these modern " sighting boards " , and as such , maybe our young friend " Ossie " can start another application to take care of this .

We are all concerned about bad behaviour , but do everyone report it ?
Or are we only concerned about telling the whole world on " social networks " about buffalo sightings , or about lion sightings , etc , etc .

No , lets rather shame those who spoil it for others , tell the whole world , and get them out of our parks .

Ossendryver , if you can do that , and thereby help to reduce unaccepted behaviour , I will become your biggest fan on this forum :)

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 Post subject: Re: Quick, effective, convenient access to sightings in Krug
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 3:54 pm 
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okie wrote:
Back to topic , I feel that such sightings should also be reported on to these modern " sighting boards " , and as such , maybe our young friend " Ossie " can start another application to take care of this .


Taken from the sightings app earlier today:
7:00am
I went back to Klopperfontein and when i got there, a car is sitting right at the elephant carvass, they drove into the bush to get there. I can see the male lion laying there through my binocs. I got a photo of them on my camera as they were driving out through veld, registration no BN 38 DV GP. They drove out and left when me and 2 other cars arrived. Will someone please report them, signal too bad here to call.
Tinged by Annette

Seems it was reported via this platform, and the necessary action taken as result thereof :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Quick, effective, convenient access to sightings in Krug
Unread postPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Yip Okie, I got and reported 2 posts on that. 1 last night and 1 this morning.
I would like to point out that I reported them and let's just say these people who got out the car had a rough time checking into their Letaba booking tonight :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: COMPLAINT: Latest Sightings for Kruger
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:15 pm 
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I totally agree. When we first heard of this "latest sighting" service it did not take much imagination to see the results of such a service, idiots speeding between reported sightings.

We were at a cheetah sighting when dozens of cars arrived, far more than just the normal passing traffic, we were on a gravel road near to Lower Sabie. it became a circus, people out of cars, standing on cars. We found out later that the sighting had been reported on Latest Sightings.

My wife sent a mail to the site asking if sightings of Rhino were banned but she never had a reply.

We try to avoid the south of the park that is becoming more of a theme park.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: COMPLAINT: Latest Sightings for Kruger
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:22 pm 
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I totally agree. I hate this whole technology aspect of Kruger. But this site is so entrenched now there will be no going back.


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 Post subject: Re: COMPLAINT: Latest Sightings for Kruger
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:36 pm 
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What are people doing with cell phones/I-pads/laptops/dstv while on holiday in the Kruger? :shock: :cry: :cry: We switch our phones off before entering the park and they stay off till we leave, what is the point of "getting away" from the hustle and bustle of city life if you still have all the" gadgets" with you. :shock: :shock:

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Letaba 23 - 26 December 2014
Olifants 27 - 29 December 2014
Tamboti 30 December 2014
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 Post subject: Re: Using sightings groups/apps - good or bad?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:10 pm 
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Location: Hagley,UK
Just like to add my support to the many Mites who hate this technology,and the affect it is having on roads and sightings.
On my last visit to Kruger we turned into what is usually a quiet gravel road , to find about 20 vehicles crawling,stopping,turning around etc.
On asking someone what was going on a leopard had been reported to the app.Needless to say the leopard was far gone.
To me part of the fun is finding animals myself,then leave as the cars build up.A lot of these people miss out as the best has happened before they arrive.
Oh for the Kruger before cell phones,but I suppose it will never go away.


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 Post subject: Re: Using sightings groups/apps - good or bad?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Barryvh

The particular sightings group in question here has been a massive contributor to anti rhino poaching initiatives, a massive donations effort for the families affected by the recent Kruger floods, and him and his team of tingers have time and again been a helping force to help the animals. I am referring mainly to animals with snares, where he has used his network of information to contact section rangers, and his sightings updates contribute to wild dog research. If I had the time to consider all positive contributions he has made, I would likely double the length of this message :D This lad has influence Obama, the most powerful man in the world, to lend his hand towards anto rhino poaching efforts :clap: I am just suggesting that you learn a bit more about the phenomenon you criticize

That being said, there is something to say about the negative effects of latestkrugersightings, and we are all entitled to our opinion. People have always sped and misbehaved in Kruger ... Harry Wolhuter talks about tourists speeding and roadkills in the first 5 years of Kruger bring opened to tourists :| My gran can recall stories of cars driving off road to get closer to lions, and people disrespecting animals and getting out of their cars. There have always been those who disrespect the animals, and other tourists. In days of old people would speed, but their compass was a roads reputation (speeding down the s100 in the morning) or speeding to points according to the pin up maps. Unfortunately those who are inclined to use Kruger as a big five circus, will utilise technology to direct them.

Has behavior in Kruger gotten worse? That is a good question :hmz: It seems to me bad behavior is much more related to many cars in the Park than technology. But that is my opinion :) One thing is for sure, the technology is here to stay, now let us utilise the platform for positive :D Let those of us who have a heart for conservation be leaders on these platforms as well and set the tone :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Using sightings groups/apps - good or bad?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:07 pm 
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Hi all, I see and understand the concerns. I was probably the first to mention these potential issues on a public platform to OD, but this is here to stay and I realized that more than a year ago and asked OD these same questions and a few days later rules, etc started each day of postings.

We need to understand that there’s an element that will always run wild, especially since they aren’t policed or watched, whether this site or others are around.

That fact is its here to stay, so why not use it to report rule breakers, etc and SANParks can follow to control those crazy roadblocks in the south

The problem is too many cars and day visitors, not OD’s site IMO


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