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 Post subject: Re: Stings like hell
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:10 am 
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Senior Virtual Ranger
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Gilbertr14 the medics, if we are talking about the same army medics :doh:, without fail gave a person a panado or a grand-pa to cure all ailments and aches even if you were seriously ill and send you off – just like how you put it:

Gilbertr14 wrote:
Medics told me to suck it up...


Thanks for the advice Shidzidzii :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Stings like hell
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:38 am 
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Location: GAUTENG , S.A.
Netek , bicarb and citrosode are bases , and you need an alkaloid to neutralize scorpion sting. The local doctor recommended petrol because it was common, but I am sure we can look up some more alkaloids.


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 Post subject: Re: Stings like hell
Unread postPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:47 am 
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Location: dreaming of the bush
I know vinegar works for a beesting, wonders if it will work for scorpion sting too?

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 Post subject: Re: Stings like hell
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:42 pm 
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Location: Scratching around West Africa
The only black scorpion in that part of the country is Parabuthus transvaalicus.
Luckily it was a juvenile.
There are a lot of rumors and misinformation regarding the treatment of scorpion stings.
The following should help put the record straight.

Out of over 130 species of scorpion in southern Africa only 2 have caused deaths.
More people die from chocking on Chicken McNuggets (tm) than scorpion stings.
Guess which one I'm afraid of?

During a sting, the venom is injected into the lymphatic system.
It travels in the lymphatic system and begins to get absorbed into the bloodstream and circulate through the body.
Scorpions can inject varying amounts of venom depending on the situation.
Step on a scorpion and it will inject as much venom as it can (life and death situation for the scorpion). Irritate it by blowing on it and it would inject very little venom (a subtle message to stop blowing on it). Venom is an expensive form of defense that scorpion will not just waste!

So... once the venom is in the lymphatic system you cannot get at it by applying anything from the outside. This includes rubbing petrol, lemons, crushed up Panado, toothpaste, urine, vinegar, Mr Min or (my favorite) Handy Andy.

Most stings are painful but that's about it.
It's estimated that only 5% of stings need medical intervention.
We class the symptoms in the following ways:

Class 1: Localised.(Localised pain)
Class 2: Systemic. (Blurry vision, slurred speech, respiratory distress.)
Class 3: System failure (paralysis, cardiogenic failure, respiratory failures. etc..)

Only infants under the age of 2 (body mass compared to venom injected) and the aged (pre-exisitng health conditions) are at risk of death. However...

The first system experienced is intense pain.
Based upon the intensity of the pain, you can estimate the severity of the symptoms to follow.
I maintain that if you can handle the pain (Class 1), then no need for medical intervention.
If you begin to experience Class 2 symptoms then better be safe and seek professional medical advice (someone who does NOT prescribe petrol or Handy Andy).

Obviously Class 2 symptoms experienced within 5 minutes of being stung is a serious sign as the symptoms should start to intensify.
Symptoms often peak at about 5 hours after being stung.
Many people experience varying degrees of anxiety when stung by a scorpion.
These symptoms should not be confused with the action of the venom and should be treated separately.

Of course not all scorpions are venomous enough to warrant medical intervention.
Stings from mildly venomous scorpions (Opistophthalmus sp.)cause pain lasting for 15 minutes to a couple of hours, pins and needles for a couple of days.
A sting from Hadogenes sp. causes slight pin prick feeling, then itches for 2 minutes

Hope this helps.

Kind regards

Jonathan Leeming

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 Post subject: Re: Stings like hell
Unread postPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:18 pm 
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Location: Cape Town
Thanks Jonathan

Lovely informative post.


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 Post subject: Re: Stings like hell
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:43 am 
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Location: GAUTENG , S.A.
Jonathan, a question for you please.
If you apply petrol immediately (before it gets to the lymph glands) would that reduce the pain?
Would it reduce the uptake of the venom ie. Total pain duration?
On the farm in December 2010 after the first really serious rains the scorpions came in droves (amazing to see this sight) to the lit up lapa after the insects.
We put in yellow energy saving bulbs and that helped.
That was when we also heard about the petrol remedy (Boereraat) in case of a sting.
The following night we had a office x-mas party and the lightning hit out the electricity.
One of the ladies decided to put out hurricane lamps on the ground inside the veranda to where we had all moved out of the rain.
I could not believe that so many scorpions could appear that fast attracted by light and the lamps had to go.
In January we were at Fish Eagle House at Letaba were a similar plague of Solfugids aka Sun Spiders or Red Romans were present.
It is near impossible to get a Macro close up photo of one we learned by experience.
Advice I can offer is : wear shoes; have soft lighting away from where you are sitting and learn to braai etc in darker conditions; and don't put your hands without gloves into funny places like a wood pile.
But creepy's are not marauding monsters wanting to injure humans.


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 Post subject: Re: Stings like hell
Unread postPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:44 am 
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Location: Scratching around West Africa
Hi Shidzidzii
for the petrol thing to work you would have to inject it into the lyphatic system which is not a good idea. Bee stings work differently as the venom is injected into the upper layers of the skin. There are vast diferences between the symptoms of highly venomous scorpions and weakly venomous scorpions. At one end you have death and the other slight pain for 2 minutes then an itch feeling.

Many stings just cause pain for 15 minutes. In such cases rubbing anything on the sting site for 15 minutes will give the perception of a "cure" hence the old wives tails and misinformation (such as using petrol).

There are alot more scorpion sout there than many people think. I've seen a single dead tree with 15 scorpions in it. In the Nothern Cape it's not uncommon to see more than 200 scorpions in a single night.

Hope this helps.

Kind regars
Jonathan

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 Post subject: Re: Stings like hell
Unread postPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:28 am 
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Scorpionkng,

Is there any truth in the theory that:

Big pincer / small tail = not very poisonous
Small pincer / big tail = very poisonous


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 Post subject: Re: Stings like hell
Unread postPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:29 am 
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Hi Yoda
Yep! You're absolutely right! There are free posters on my website for download showing the differences between highly venomous and weakly venomous scorpions.

I'm not allowed to include the URL in this post but search for my full name and you'll find it.

Kind regards
Jonathan

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 Post subject: Scorpions - Best place in Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 4:31 pm 
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Hi Scorpionking
Or anyone else with experience.

Where is the best place in Kruger to see scorpions?
I am thinking in terms of which camp?

Mainly because you are not restricted to being in your car.
And you can walk about at night.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Scorpions - Best place in Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Wed May 08, 2013 10:03 pm 
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Location: Irene, Centurion
We've seen lot of them in Punda and Shingwedzi in December, and in Tamboti in August. I use a UV torch and it works very well, now I just need to learn to ID them.


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 Post subject: Re: Scorpions - Best place in Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 8:48 am 
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There are zillions in the trees at Letaba as well :D

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 Post subject: Re: Scorpions - Best place in Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 1:48 pm 
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In December I found Croc Bridges camping area to be crawling with them

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 Post subject: Re: Scorpions - Best place in Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 4:11 pm 
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I had one very close to my tent (under the awning) last September in Malelane - when I was packing up I got some of the guys in camp to help me with my ground sheet as I was scared there would be more underneath ... :big_eyes:

Also saw one which crawled under my freezer (again, under my tent awning) at Maroela last December.

Am not keen on them at all ... :big_eyes: :big_eyes: :big_eyes:

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 Post subject: Re: Scorpions - Best place in Kruger?
Unread postPosted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:47 pm 
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So I guess any camp then?

Last December we stayed at B & D and Skuks and using an ordinary torch, I did search for Scorpions at night but never saw any.

I will have to get a UV torch for my trip this coming December.


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