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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Bush Baptist wrote:
This is a highly emotional subject, and arrests frankly do not amount to much, and are very unsatisfying for the bloodlust of those who are passionate about our rhinos.
I very much agree on this one!

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:54 pm 
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What I would like to know is what are the conviction rates. This is where my major concern lies. It is estimated that about 90% of the perpetrators get off! These buggers should be convicted 100% of the time! Why is this not happening? Technicalities? Lack of evidence? Escapes?


Agreed it is a major concern. Hard untainted evidence that will stand up in court is key and the anti poaching squad trainers have incorporated this important point into training of all new recruits. Equally, all documentation must be in order, and the treatment of any suspects has to be in line with their rights even if they are granted begrudgingly. Any problems with the above and no conviction.

Very frustrating though in my opinion that bail amounts when granted are not set ludicrously high.Because even if the case is going to fail later due to whatever reason, suspects should be sitting in the interim and not walking free on bail.

Case in point today in the Cape Town courts was 2 gentleman of south east asian origin who were found in possession of a stockpile of ivory. Bail was extended for one of the suspects at R70000. Yesterdays hearing for Douw Grobler and his co-accused for which bail amounts were no more than R5000. The cases are different yes, but my point is that guys who are anywhere in the poaching chain should be fearing that they will not be able to afford bail and that they might have to sit ...... Then at least we will be left with more of the fearless and desperate and less of the opportunist elements who will hopefully think the risk is too high. Bail amounts are pathetic in my opinion and need to be drastically increased across the board. We are dealing with seriously big bucks here -----


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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:00 pm 
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Something many of us may not have thought of: The shame and embarassment to the REAL rangers in KNP of whom a good number are still so dedicated and whose vocation ( not just a job) it is. I feel for them.


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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:03 pm 
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RobertT wrote:
wildtuinman wrote:
There is a definite increase in arrests made in comparison to poaching incidents. To me it says that SANP is definitely doing something right.2010 - 49.5% arrest ratio vs poaching incidents.2011 - 51.8%2012 - 62.5% to date


Are these figures for the country?

When I look at the figures supplied by Lesego for Kruger I am seeing it different.

in 2010 had 45% of arrests for rhino poached in Kruger and 40% of the Countries Rhino poached were from Kruger.

in 2011 had 32 % arrest for rhino poached in Kruger, and 56% of countries Rhino's poached were from Kruger

in 2012 we have 20% arrest for rhino poached in Kruger, and 53% of countries poached Rhino are from Kruger.

So, yes, the arrests are going up, not sure it can be attributed to Sanparks, but am willing to be wrong. To me it looks like Kruger is going backwards?


I was just thinking about the figures given above by RobertT and Lesego. The number of arrest is quite a big percentage but what is concerning is the increasing numbers in poachers.

Why is the % of poachers arrested decreasing every year, while the numbers of rhino's killed is increasing from 333 in 2010 to 443 in 2011 and already 80 in 2012. One can reason less poachers, but then again the numbers of rhino's killed should have halved by now. :hmz: Another disturbing fact from the above stats is the fact that the % rhino's poached in Kruger increased, which means even after all the arrest the numbers of poachers must have increased and they targetting Kruger with a better success rate than before.

We need more than a few rangers to fight this battle, because these guys are getting better by the day killing rhino's.

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Oryx wrote:
Something many of us may not have thought of: The shame and embarassment to the REAL rangers in KNP of whom a good number are still so dedicated and whose vocation ( not just a job) it is. I feel for them.

Fully agreed
For many rangers being a ranger in Kruger is still a dedication and not simply a job

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:37 pm 
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bert wrote:
Oryx wrote:
Something many of us may not have thought of: The shame and embarassment to the REAL rangers in KNP of whom a good number are still so dedicated and whose vocation ( not just a job) it is. I feel for them.

Fully agreed
For many rangers being a ranger in Kruger is still a dedication and not simply a job


I agree wholeheartedly, these 4 would not have been caught without those dedicated to the job... We must be careful not to tar all with the same brush!!

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:39 pm 
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bert wrote:
Oryx wrote:
Something many of us may not have thought of: The shame and embarassment to the REAL rangers in KNP of whom a good number are still so dedicated and whose vocation ( not just a job) it is. I feel for them.

Fully agreed
For many rangers being a ranger in Kruger is still a dedication and not simply a job



I have read many posts along the line, the current rangers do not appreciate the work and that it should be a calling. How many of us are sitting at work and do not particularly enjoy it, but know you are doing it to feed your family, or save money for your next trip to Kruger? I don't think many people are in their dream job. We do enjoy the work we do, but most times it is making the best of a bad situation. This will not be unique for the rangers working in Kruger, as they sometimes also "fall" into the work and do not see it as a calling. This does not excuse any illegal activities as there are many other rangers that do not steal cookies from the cookie jar.

This news was always going to happen and I am sure we will see more stories of SANParks staff that will try to make a quick buck. This is not new. This has been happening for a long time, even under the previous "conservation minded" management.

What makes me extremely mad and angry, it does seem that some people were happy at this news as this was something to beat Dr Mabunda and the board with. We will not achieve anything in the fight against the poachers if some of us are busy looking for opportunities to score points on our personal opinions of staff of Kruger. I will ask again, EVERYONE, even our friends from the green forum to put your personal prejudices aside in the fight against poaching. We cannot let our feelings over the new developments interfere with the survival of a species. (There will be other opportunities to discuss the developments, lets not get sidetracked in this critical time for the rhinos)

Let us congratulate SANParks that they were able to find some of the rotten apples in their own organization and hopefully this will act as a deterrent for anybody else that is currently working in Kruger. I hope for many more positive stories concerning the capture of poachers, even if they are SANParks staff!

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Weltenman, the reason why so many peeps delight in this news, and take on Dr. Mabunda is cause there has been too many calls to the effect that staff is involved, and though I do think that Sanparks was not blind to this, these suggestions were dealt with in a less than friendly manner.

As for getting tired of your job, I was an accountant, when I got fed up I did not rob my company.

As for the green Forum, lets not even mention them here.


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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 9:07 pm 
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Scipio, I would understand that position if there was never any involvement of staff in previous years. But you know that staff do get involved, it was predicted here. There is no way that any organization in the world is 100% free of corruption, especially one as big as SANParks with that many employees.

Let me ask you, if the rangers were to access the forums and read some of the accusations labelled against them, do you honestly believe they would risk their lives in the fight against poaching if the visitors think they are all corrupt?

I did say in my post that not liking your job does not excuse illegal behaviour. We agree on that. :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Weltenman wrote:
I will ask again, EVERYONE, even our friends from the green forum to put your personal prejudices aside in the fight against poaching. We cannot let our feelings over the new developments interfere with the survival of a species!

Glad to hear we are still friends! :wink: WTM, unfortunately it is hard to not let personal feelings show when it comes to the survival of a species. I am not happy with the news, nor do I want to use it to beat Dr Mabunda with, I just feel that the current management of Sanparks leaves a lot to be desired and could do with a big shake-up - just MY opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:43 pm 
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JenB wrote:
I feel very distraught by the posts claiming that the fight has been lost. :(
While there are still rhino left and there are men and woman out there prepared to put their lives on the line the fight is not lost.


I agree with you 100%. If we give up now we might as well stop breathing.

If ever something meant anythiing to you,
if you have children and you love them,
if you are interested in their future and your own,
if you have one ounce of humanity in your heart,
if you care one little bit,
if it hurts you to hear or see a poached rhino,
if it makes your heart smile to see a live rhino,
if your heart still beats,

THEN FIGHT TILL YOU CANNOT STAND ANY MORE!!!

It doesn't matter if it is One Rand or 10 million Dollars...
FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT.

Ask yourself this...

If it happens then that rhino's are completly wiped of the earth, If that day should ever come will you be able to live with yourself knowing that you were just a spectator and you did nothing?

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:58 pm 
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With the sad news of the rhino poached at Pretoriuskop we have decided to let the cat out of the bag and let you all in on one of the cricket high points

The Virtual Region of the Sanparks Honorary Rangers ( your own forum region) have taken the present onslaught on the rhino seriously and, as you know, adopted the slogan "SANParks Bats for Rhinos" as our theme for this year's cricket.
Batting is not enough and when the need of the anti poaching folks for GPS units and kit bags became known the region rallied together and spared no effort to fill the need.

We are happy to announce that 44 Garmin Etrex 10 GPS units will be handed over to the anti poaching folks.
These units will empower rangers in the field to summons the help of the helicopters much more efficiently and provide them with an advantage over the poachers.

Image

A more critical need for kit bags was identified and these are on its way already through couriers. These kit bags are not your common garden variety kit bags but highly specialised hydration packs suitable for loading in the belly of the helicopter.
You can imagine when the guys are on the trail of suspected poachers things get pretty hectic and like a marathon runner they do not take time to stop and have a drink. With the hydration packs it is merely a case of bite and drink leaving their hands free to do more important things like holding a rifle.

Some of the bags:

Image

Image

Image

We would like to urge every one to show you care if not for the rhino then the folks putting their lives on the line saving them.
Please support your local Honorary Rangers

There are a lot of folks who care :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:15 pm 
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Image Image

EAT THIS POACHERS - Image

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:25 pm 
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Here is a golden opportunity to walk the talk and do something to stop these low life creatures and for the skeptics saving just one rhino is worth the effort :twisted:
Get involved and who knows you might even have some fun while doing so
http://www.sanparks.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=59989&p=1653257#p1653257

Quote:
We have not forgotten the on line auction. This year we are going to make things a bit shorter and have some more fun. We are once again asking you to look deep in your hearts as we are raising funds for the anti poaching drive. I don't think I need to convince anyone about the serious nature of this cause so dig deep and support us in this drive. As you might have noticed in other posts your contributions do make a difference where it matters, help us continue with this work.

Auction 2012 will run for the month of March only and the hammer falls on the 31st at 20h00 so reply here with your donations or pm me and I will set up the bidding.

:hands:

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 Post subject: Re: Poaching
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Flutterby wrote:
Weltenman wrote:
I will ask again, EVERYONE, even our friends from the green forum to put your personal prejudices aside in the fight against poaching. We cannot let our feelings over the new developments interfere with the survival of a species!

Glad to hear we are still friends! :wink: WTM, unfortunately it is hard to not let personal feelings show when it comes to the survival of a species. I am not happy with the news, nor do I want to use it to beat Dr Mabunda with, I just feel that the current management of Sanparks leaves a lot to be desired and could do with a big shake-up - just MY opinion.


Flutterby.. I realise that it is an emotional topic and all.
I would just like to also point out that it is easy for us to sit and demand action.

But remember that KNP is larger than the country of Israel. Israel is protected by one of the most advanced airforces and armies int he world.

KNP has 500 - 600 rangers protecting it. With vast teritory comes massive logistical issues. It is the nature of how things work in Kruger. Not only for poaching but also for everything else.

I was there today to deliver some much needed equipment to Frikkie Rossouw and Bruce Lesley and Ken Maggs at the airwing and anti poaching wings. I am in the priviledged position to see what happens on the floor. I wish that everyone could see the dedication of those people.

I have no doubt that Mr. Mabunda's dedication is the same.

I have 50 people working in my own building. I gaurantee you there are more than 5 corrupt ones there.
To expect Mr. Mabunda to know all the corrupt people in a place the size of KNP is a task not he or anyone else will EVER be able to fullfill.

So having said that I understand that it is hard to read all of this. But massive efforts are being made to counter this issue. That I can gaurantee you.

It will probably hit the news tomorrow or so but it appears that one of the guys that are not striking was trampled by buffalo this morning.

Dedication of the top order if you ask me.

The question is... What is our dedication to this problem. What are we doing. If you need to do something contact any of the mods for the Virtual honorary rangers banking details. 100% gauranteed and audited your donations will go to where it matters most. - ON THE GROUND WHERE THE HARD YARDS ARE DONE.

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