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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:26 pm 
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I totally agree that the culling of Elephants is a reality that needs to happen sooner than later and that in itself it provides a solution, as WTM suggested, to some of the problems regarding the people living on the borders of KNP.

Question is, will Sanparks be willing to let that meat go for free or at a very cheap price?


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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:30 pm 
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Edit

But then again, probably 15 000 of the increase is due to illegal immigration to the land of milk, honey and game meat. :whistle:

Deedee, SANParks is in a precarious situation, cause of less financial distibution to them from Government, and the increasing pressure to open up the parks, contrasting with concervation priciples that has made Kruger(In this case) one of the greatest successes in conservation worldwide. 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:36 pm 
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Scipio wrote:
Deedee, SANParks is in a precarious situation, cause of less financial distibution to them from Government, and the increasing pressure to open up the parks, contrasting with concervation priciples that has made Kruger(In this case) one of the greatest successes in conservation worldwide. 8)



Heh?


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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:37 pm 
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Scips, you`re probably right :lol: . How about starting a new marketing campaign with the slogan "Eat more and do less" or something to that effect.


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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:42 pm 
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The question has been asked whether it is Krugers' problem to help address poverty on its borders.

Without going in to the details and the often highly emotive and complex pro and cons on each point, I just want to start and make a list of reasons why it is necessary, and indeed unavoidable that this should be an important issue on the KNP agenda:

1. To limit subsistence poaching.
2. To address and help prevent the possibility of a land grab or even de-proclamation.
3. It is voters across the fence.
4. KNP is a valuable national resource which should assist the country in its development processes.
5. It is the moral thing to do when you see your neighbours battling.
6. It is often family and friends who are battling.
7. To contain the influence of organised crime and limit the possibility of syndicates to get a foothold in the communities so as to exploit KNP's resources.
8. To recognise the legitimate history of many of these people in this area.
9. To help facilitate cooperation with the people rather than confrontation and animosity.
10. To explore how to live up to its conservation leadership role in the harsh economic, social and political realities of the modern Africa and the modern world.
11. To redress injustices of the past and help promote a moral and just country.

You can obviously add many more and discuss each item. But we cannot deny the importance of this issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 1:51 pm 
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well put Imberbe :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:27 pm 
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Imberbe wrote:
The question has been asked whether it is Krugers' problem to help address poverty on its borders.

Without going in to the details and the often highly emotive and complex pro and cons on each point, I just want to start and make a list of reasons why it is necessary, and indeed unavoidable that this should be an important issue on the KNP agenda:

1. To limit subsistence poaching.
2. To address and help prevent the possibility of a land grab or even de-proclamation.
3. It is voters across the fence.
4. KNP is a valuable national resource which should assist the country in its development processes.
5. It is the moral thing to do when you see your neighbours battling.
6. It is often family and friends who are battling.
7. To contain the influence of organised crime and limit the possibility of syndicates to get a foothold in the communities so as to exploit KNP's resources.
8. To recognise the legitimate history of many of these people in this area.
9. To help facilitate cooperation with the people rather than confrontation and animosity.
10. To explore how to live up to its conservation leadership role in the harsh economic, social and political realities of the modern Africa and the modern world.
11. To redress injustices of the past and help promote a moral and just country.

You can obviously add many more and discuss each item. But we cannot deny the importance of this issue.


i don't think it is SANParks remit to address poverty (on its borders) directly. However I do believe that SANParks must strive to improve it's relations with the people that live around its border in a more proactive manner than has been used in the past; in fact, it needs to be done in such a way that border populations begin to realise that it really is in their best interests to maintain good relations with the park because their lives are actually going to improve. And yes the reasons for this are those that you have listed Imberbe. We owe that. (Ubuntu - I am what I am because of who we all are). I believe that moves towards better relationships may have already started on SANPark's side and some of these moves have already raised queries and concerns on the forum. None of us wants to see the wild ambience of Kruger destroyed - I feel as strongly as anyone on that issue; however I have to ask myself whether I would prefer, ultimately, the complete destruction of what we know now or whether I would be prepared to accept a compromise. That doesn't mean that I feel unable to object to certain projections; it means that I can think about all suggestions in this particular context and see the logic in some of them. Yes, I see a changed Kruger coming. No i don't like it. But I do like that efforts will be made that may improve the lives of people in great need. So - dichotomy. :roll: :tongue:


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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Oh dear, thank you Imberbe. I got lost here. A bit of past history, methinks :wink:

I am going to think about Imberbe's points and reply tomorrow.

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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 1:41 am 
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Excellent post Imberbe! :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:11 am 
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Yes, excellent post Imberbe :clap: :clap: :clap:

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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:55 am 
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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Imberbe - great post!

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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:11 pm 
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If you don't mind I have quite a few objections to the questions posed by Imberbe.

As prelimary remark I want to state that all the problems that Imberbe has highlighted must be resolved, with time and when resourses are availabe. They are all serious problems and not only in the Kruger area, but all over the country.

Sanparks has lately continuosly underlined that with the financial support received from the Government being cut down, they will be in serious financial difficulties.

Kruger is the only Park working with a positive balance and must thus provide financial help to all the other parks.

Staff is known to be underpaid which leads to strike or even criminal temptations.

Many accomodations are in dire need of refurbishing.

Etc. etc.

It is my opinion that almost all the mentioned and also non-mentioned problems should be resolved by the Govenment.

Quote:
4. KNP is a valuable national resource which should assist the country in its development processes.


No! Sanparks should only occupy itself with Sanparks = conservation and what else needs attention inside the boundaries of the parks. They may be called to testify on the difficulties outside the boundaries, but in no case should Sanparks give any financial help if not giving jobs.

If one day Sanparks can present a positive balance sheet, then I would certainly be in favour of the above, but until then.......


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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:18 pm 
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Micetta, what you say is true, budget for the parks have been cut to enable government to increase funding for Job creation, decreasing poverty etc. So it is a goodquestion to ask if SANParks should take the double Whammy. :hmz:

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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:32 pm 
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Micetta I think the community levy was perhaps brought in to provide a budget stream to adopt strategies and schemes aimed at addressing some of the things that Imberbe is talking about. I also think that in their implementation there potentially lies long terms savings.

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 Post subject: Re: Kruger - Past, Present and Future
Unread postPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:36 pm 
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threedogs wrote:
Micetta I think the community levy was perhaps brought in to provide a budget stream to adopt strategies and schemes aimed at addressing some of the things that Imberbe is talking about. I also think that in their implementation there potentially lies long terms savings.


Long term savings? :hmz:

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