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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:16 am 
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Lesego wrote:
Imberbe wrote:
To me the cattle in the river is a part of the character of Mapungubwe. It is something of old Africa, which is quite in character with the history of the ancient civilisation which flourished there. As for Mapungubwe being taken over and grazing being destroyed by cattle ... that is not quite accurate. They do cross the river and at times do enter the park. This is impossible to stop as the border is in the centre of the river.
I couldn't agree more with Imberbe. :)


I could not agree less ...

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:47 am 
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I agree even less.

Mapungubwe is a National Park, already under threat by mining activities, now this.

SANParks should now do something to stop this as a matter of urgency!

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:23 am 
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I was thinking of making a booking for Mapungubwe, but after reading about the cattle free-ranging there I won't! Mapungubwe will not see me while this sorry state of affairs is going on! :evil:

Does anyone know what the purpose is of the flattened fence as shown in the photo of Son godin?

Cattle feeding in a conservation park will NEVER be part of the character for me! :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:31 am 
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TheunsH wrote:
I was thinking of making a booking for Mapungubwe, but after reading about the cattle free-ranging there I won't! Mapungubwe will not see me while this sorry state of affairs is going on!

I had the exact same reaction.

Its a very similar situation to the Limpopo transfrontier park: I travelled a bit through the Moz side a number of years ago on a canoe trip. There are still whole subsistence villages in the national park in Moz. Not quite what I expected to see there.

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:33 am 
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Quote:
This approach will allow free movement of wildlife in the Greater Mapungubwe TFCA and allow natural processes to function better than in the current fragmented landscape


The key is Greater Mapungubwe TFCA
Quote:
Programmes encompass more than one peace park and include many, if not all of Southern Africa's TFCAs. The Climate Change Programme, TFCA Veterinary Programme and Ecosystem Services are run by Peace Parks Foundation, whereas Boundless Southern Africa was launched and is run by nine Southern African countries. They all set out to achieve the best not only for the region's TFCAs, but also for the partner countries and their people.


So there is a much bigger picture. Creating more room for wild animals to roam.
But you can not remove people and life stock living in this area and conflicts with the whole principle of the Peace Parks .
And this concept is working already
Quote:
This is ascribed to movement of the continent's largest land mammal from neighbouring Botswana. An aerial game survey conducted this month counted 114 elephants as against 65 last year.

The majority of elephants are in the western section of the park where they move in from the privately-owned Mashatu Game Reserve in Botswana's Tuli Block.

SANParks' large herbivore scientists believe this number can rise quickly as large numbers of elephant in the Limpopo riverbed move into Mapungubwe.

This is a seasonal migration; the elephants usually return to Botswana after summer rains.


As fences go down instead of erecting them (except for some protecting people and crops against elepehants)

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:59 am 
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All these wonderful explanations still do not change the fact that foreign stock is roaming in OUR National Park and this is not desirable.

The Peace Parks foundation is mentioned - does anyone for one moment imagine that this is what Dr. Anton Rupert had in mind when he started this.

What will the defenders of this who posted earlier in this thread's response be if an outbreak of Foot and Mouth or any other animal disease take place?

It is about time that all, even those living in Good old Africa start realizing that responsibility is also part of life.

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:12 am 
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Understand the concerns for foot and mouth for eg.
But this is following Dr Anton Rupert vision and of WWF South Africa
Quote:
© 2009 Erhardt Thiel On 27 May 1990, Anton Rupert, President of WWF South Africa (then called the Southern African Nature Foundation) had a meeting in Maputo with Mozambique's President Joaquim Chissano, to discuss the possibility of establishing a permanent link between some of the protected areas in southern Mozambique and their adjacent counterparts in South Africa, Swaziland and Zimbabwe.


Time will tell but for the first time in history countries and wildlife organisations understand that we
must set aside more and bigger areas for wild animals to roam.

Peace Parks

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:55 am 
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I can remember since 2006/7, maybe earlier, maybe not, the cattle being part of, across the river landscape and to a much lesser degree inside the Park.
If it means a greater area for all animals to roam I have no qualms.
Mapungubwe-in my opinion- already have more fences than a cattle farm. I don’t understand the purposes of all these fences but that’s beside the point. If understanding correctly, The Peace Parks projects of which, we are part of three should/will have eventually all the fences and human made boundaries removed. The people, live stock and villages will remain as is. I personally hate the bordering Sentinel Ranch a thousand times more than the sight of cattle. It would be tragic for Mapunguwe’s animals landing on their trophy pages.

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:12 pm 
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There are currently no serious disease threats to wildlife in the park, although there is a risk of introduction of diseases, including alien diseases, through the unregulated movement of livestock or wildlife. Efforts will be directed at developing a joint disease control policy at the periphery of the TFCA and preventing the introduction of alien and unwanted diseases to the area.

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:07 pm 
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Agreed for wildlife to roam.

There is always a possibility of an outbreak of disease, maybe the joint disease control policy should already have been in place.

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I participate because I care - CUSTOS NATURAE
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No to Legalized Rhino and Lion trade.
Done 144 visits to National Parks.
What a wonderful privilege.


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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:27 pm 
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... besides its not quite my cup of tea to go to a national park and see cattle & goats ...

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KNP is sacred. I am opposed to the modernisation of Kruger and from the depths of my soul long for the Kruger of yesteryear! 1000+km on foot in KNP incl 56 wild trails.200+ nights in the wildernessndloti-indigenous name for serval.


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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:50 pm 
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ndloti wrote:
... besides its not quite my cup of tea to go to a national park and see cattle & goats ...



Agree. Although cattle & goats are preferred to buffoons. In cars. Mapangubwe have a lot less buffoons than KNP :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:37 pm 
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Who are the owners of these cattle and where are the herders? Even during the times of the "ancient civilizations" there would always be cattle herders looking after the animals. Second point: If grazing becomes scares, it will force the wild animals to go and look for food elsewhere and may stray onto hunting farms. It will be like the eastern border of Kruger where hunters take advantage of Kruger animals wandering off to Moz.

I am sorry, the presence of domesticated animals in National Parks cannot be condoned. If the argument is given that people lived like that for 1000's of years, then they must throw open Kruger to the people and their animals that lived there a 1000 years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:17 pm 
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Hi All.
It was said the lions prefer the Botswana side,so the way i see it Botswana must be doing the conservation
of their side correctly. I bet you won`t find to many cattle and people wondering around on the Botswana side just ask the lions


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 Post subject: Re: PREDATORS VS CATTLE
Unread postPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:05 pm 
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It’s funny is that I was told and believed Lion to prefer dumb cattle that is easier to catch. That they break out of parks to catch domestic animals? :roll:

We’ve never found domestic animals on the western side, and only the odd couple of animals on occasion close to the riverside in the main section of the park.
Mostly during the short time that the Limpopo is dry and they’re able cross from Botswana’s side.
It would be interesting what the private owners on the Botswana side’s take on this are.
Mashatu and more so the Coetzer property - Shalimpo http://www.shalimpo.co.za/are right on the confluence of the Limpopo & Shashe on the opposite side. It seems that is where the cattle originate from. Or maybe not.

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