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I am going to argue with you on a few points here WTM

Leopards do not decide when or whether they will be seen - to suppose so you are being anthropamorthic (SP?) - as leopards, like all other wild animals only do what they do by instinct. They ar incapable of making a decision to 'be seen' by tourists or other animals.

The Big 5 are certainly, as you say, those that are the most dangerous to hunt for their Trophies but.... Hippo's and crocs were hunted in a different way and for their meat and skins and, as such, the hunting was easier because they were in water and did not have to be tracked on foot. The reason that Hippo's kill more people than any other animal (apart from the mosquito) in Africa is because people get between them and the water or their feeding grounds. There are relatively few people killed by Hippo's on the water and those taken by crocs either ignore warnings or are just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I also disagree that the leopard would be the most probable member of the big 5 to turn you into stroganof! This would only be the case if you were unlucky enough to be walking in the bush with an old or sick leopard in your immediate area.

I am much more afraid of elephants, Black Rhino's and dagga boys when walking or driving in the bush (and I have walked in the bush in Big 5 areas many times) as both are very unpredictable and, unlike the leopard, will attack a walker or a vehicle if they are stressed.

Yayyy!! Someone to argue with.

But I see in your sig that I must email you my points.

Lemme just go figure out what on third earth that word means.

And I have to disagree here ... How do they avoid lions or other enemies in an area then, or know that they must hide their infants? I agree with Tourists maybe because they do not see this us as a threat ... Mind you ... I remember some field rangers who almost jumped on a "hiding leopard" ..




You know ... this is debatable (sp?)..

More leopards who are hurt or old have entered camps to hunt ... I can recall 3 people who have been killed by leopards. I would have to ask Oom Louie about this one .. being the one that had to catch leopards in camps and had to deal with a leopard who killed a Gate Guard.

The only thing I think that might seem to make the leopard less likely for this category is because more people have survived a leopard attack.



HUH?

Forget the spelling ... I have no clue what that means ... so that might be my downfall..

I cannot argue the Hippo's with you as you are 100% right! As well as the Black Rhino and Daggaboys!

In fact the Daggaboys are the most respected in terms of space by Rangers ... They know these old guys are skin filled with trouble ... If they are in a good mood they will charge you ... if they are in bad mood they will charge you ...

Best bet is to stay away from them and avoid them ...

The ultimate rule is : The only predictable thing of an animal is it's unpredictability ... I've learned that from Bruce Bryden ... and I believe those words through and through

Ok children, relax the bum muscles please...

Tabs, yes that word, knocked my jockstrap off completely. I am not trying to be funny here... Ok maybe a bit then. But I have gone with words from men who knows, who have hunted Africa, shot the thing with teeth and brought back the headskin.

Leopards sometimes kill for the hell of it, without taking as much as chew on your loin chop. It is well documented that a leopard killed 11 people and only licked their blood. they will sometimes already have lunch stacked up in a tree and kill the very next thing that comes by. Why? Because they are the greatest opportunist in the animal world, thats why. A wounded leopard is just twice as dangerous as a unwounded one. Tabs? Have you ever seen that clip of the Kenyan ranger poking a leopard with a stick in the back of a truck? That leopard only got provoked somewhat and nearly torn the ranger's scalp over his eyes like a wet beret.

I bet you my blowned off jockstrap that all of us have gone past a leopard without knowing it, cause it decided to satnd deadstill. Yes you can miss a deadstill standing leopard like your "skelmpie" over a long weekend.

A leopard is many things but shy is not one of them, it will come out when he wants to find you with quite some ferrocious intentions on those business ends ot it. Very much to the dissapointment but yet astonishment of yourself.

Don't fool yourself that only injured, old or sick leopards eat humans. The dappled ones in India ate people by the tons becuase their habitats got encroached. If its hungry enough it will eat anything, even your foul smelling carcass.

Leopards hurts more people simply because they almost never express their intentions when charging, they keep low and are small and agile enough and even shot in the kisser will keep on coming, unlike a lion.

Which animal killed or injured most people in Kruger? Maybe lion with the immigrants trying to pass through, but reported case states that the dappled silent killer will of all animals get to turn your fresh bacon into stroganoff with the greatest of ease anytime and anywhere, and that my dear friends is a fact.

Anthropomorphic is a term used to describe our tendency to project human attributes or feelings onto animals.
I also had the privilege to accompany Bruce Dryden on a, "spoor, tracking" course. One of our camp fire evenings was spent around the camp fire while he described a forensic investigation into a human Leopard kill in detail. The kill took place in Skukuza.
It was one of the most memorable experiences of my life.
I did describe in another thread how after the talk I woke up needing the ablutions. They were far from my tent. Double problem, I could hear the unmistakable sound of the sawing of a Leopard pacing close to the fence.
I lay in bed terrified to leave, but after Chardonnay and a good beef braai, the call of nature was stronger.
While in the "ladies" I seriously considered spending the remainder of the night on the floor.
One of my ranger clients told me that the Leopard was the one animal which really seemed to look at you intelligently as if summing you up. It was, he believed, a very cunning animal.

OK, time to get serious here

While the leopard is very sneaky and will take it's chances against a lone (idiot?) walker in da bush, lions are supreme when it comes to opportunism. They will immediately take out any animal who strays into their line of sight, if they have a chance of catching it, and even if there are more than one and even if they have just feasted on the biggest buff in the area.

Leopards are much more cautious as they do not have the strength of lions and do not generally hunt in 'packs or prides'' - and are generally much shyer which means that you are less likely to come across one.

Reports of killings of humans by leopards are more reported than those of lions simply because they tend to occur in towns and villages rather than in the bush - and therefore are subject to 'damage control measures' by the authorities. It is also a factor that leopards do not respect game fences and are much more wide-ranging than lions.

We should not dismiss the killing of illegal immigrants form the equation - they are mostly killed by lions whereas few are killed by leppys, other predators or other members of the Big 5.

Am I winning the argument yet?

Uh? Lemme think...

NO.

Geez now I have to create a different topic for this one. Thanks Tabs.

Very interesting and instructive discussion!
Just a little question: what animals are the Daggaboys?

Old Buffalo bulls. Called so for their liking in wallowing in mud and keeping in thick cover such as reedbeds next to main water causes.

Glad you enjoy this topic.
Cheerio
WTM

Daggaboys are old lone buffalo bulls .. they got their name from the original dagga boys who build huts out of dagga (a mix of water and sand to form a clay) .. after building a hut they would usually be covered by this dagga ...

Old buffalo's like to roll in mud and hence because of the mud use to look like they build huts with dagga .. thus they were name Daggaboys ...

I have to agree with wtm , leopards do choose to let you see them , if only by instinct , or due to there well founded fear for man.
If they decide that they are tired of you watching them , they will disappear very quickly , and they don't have to move off to do this .They are also in my opinion the only predator that will look you straight in the eyes as they walk past your car , they do not prescribe to the "animals look at your car as 1 creature" concept .

As far as saying they aren't likely to attack you unless sick , I am not so sure of this as I have also been on walks in the bush , and trails rangers have a healthy respect of leopards , and always worry about tripping over a hidden leopard.
Sure , they aren't about to attack you if they don't feel threatened , but when do they become threatened ? you moving to close to there hiding spot because you haven't seen them maybe ?

They are also wanton killers , and this is the unfortunate reason so many farmers despise them , they will kill and entire hock full of chickens if they get into it , or they will kill a pen full of sheep , just to feast on the back legs of 1 .

Thanks for daggaboys info.


I read something about leopards in India, who came into villages for killing dogs or goats, and sometime they didn’t leave the village before sunrise and spent the entire day in the village without moving on a wood pile(?) and nobody noticed them.

That is true papop. they can practically hide behind a matchbox. I can tell you know that there are several roaming around in Pretoria right now, and no one knows.

I have also heard of leopard passing by and even over some goats to get to the herdsboy. Fact is they kill humans and sometimes kill for the sheer hell of it.

All over this forum I have mentioned incidents of leopard encounters with people(yes mostly staff) in Kruger.

On my advice, but it is only a French advice Leopards are still present everywhere on the Earth because they are opportunist, discreet, and they have a great adaptation capacity.

The first thing I learned in Africa is: never break animal’s space, respect their own security perimeter. (hope you understand what I mean!).

Incidentally: There is a very interesting French book about leopards. The name is: “le Peuple Leopardâ€Â

Thanks Papop!

Yes it makes perfect sense.