SANParks.org Forums

It is great to see you on the forum again, Wanda!

Hi there

Please I am asking Sanparks and the mods to please read my question very carefully and think about the answer(if any)before deleting or locking this topic

All I want to know(and I think other mites aswell):What do SANparks have to hide?
My reasons for asking this question is:Everytime a so called difficult question is being asked like some about the hotel thing, some new gates, poaching, maintanance off the facilities in the camps etc....the post are either deleted or locked and members get warned or banned . I have'nt been active on this forum for a long time since this hotel issue started, I only read all the posts and came to the conclusion that somebody is hiding something or don't want to do something about the problems .

So all I ask is a straight answer from Sanparks to clear this up, please don't try to tell long stories, just make it short and to the point

Thanks fot your time

Golly Harrys, with due respect, you have really got the story totally wrong. SANParks have nothing to hide. SANParks do not moderate this forum - 7 volunteers from the public moderate it and make the decisions to ban, remove etc - decisions which are guided by the rules of these forums.

Please provide evidence of this statement. I am often on this forum and read most of the topics and posts, and have never seen this happen if the questions and topics are civilly conducted.

Only posts that transgress the rules are removed/edited and only members who transgress the rules are warned or banned. Please give examples of posts made within the rules of the forums that have been removed to 'hide something' and where members were banned for purely asking 'difficult questions'.

You are entitled to draw your own conclusions, but if you are going to come here and make the statements that you have in the above post, you are to please provide links and concrete examples to back up your statement. Otherwise, please withdraw it immediately.

You also might wish to refresh yourself with the Forum Indaba, and with the topics and posts there ... and with the reasons some topics have been locked, and with which topics are open for discussion

This is not a topic for the Chit Chat forum, I will be moving it.

Nothing to hide
You might not always get the answer you wish for but thats a different story

My 2 cents, as a frequent combatant (er, participant) in the Indaba topics. No official warnings have come my way, but I've had threads locked due to me. I'm no goody-two-shoes, but I usually color inside the lines of the rules while getting my points across. Take that as you will.

Bans: I have yet to hear of a ban where it wasn't earned. And I'm friends with and have great respect for more than one banned mite. I'm also friends with a few mites who aren't banned but have left. (wish they would have stayed, but ah well) We may disagree on some subjects, big and small, but we're all good people.

Warnings: More subjective IMO, and typically come in one of two flavors. 1) Frustrated mites that want to share their voice within the rules and find themselves just outside of the rules, causing more frustration, or 2) Frustrated mites that want to share their voice just outside of the rules and make wagers on how long it takes for them to be taken to task. Some warnings come from ignorance of rules, temper, or momentary lapses in judgement, but I'd guess most 2011 warnings fall into the two "frustrated mites" categories.

Locked Threads/Deleted Posts/Edited Posts: IMO thread locking came too fast and too often this past year, but has eased over the past few months. Again, this is subjective. I think most threads are locked when posters are getting heated, or if we're beating the dead horse, or (frankly) if we touch on a taboo subject. Again, subjective.

All/always/never/every time: If there is a Red Queen shouting "Off with his head!" on here, I haven't seen it.

Where threads find a home: I'm not a fan of hiding areas of the forum...if the subjects are open for discussion then they should not be closed to perusal...but I also understand that the forum is a marketing tool. That is a fine line for me...do I want to stay here and be part of SANParks marketing, or do I want to go elsewhere and not be part of this community? I choose to stay here, with a toe dipped into ponds where my non-mite friends reside.

Harrys,

I am coming in as someone who is not a mod and not a Sanparks affiliated employee.

I am, I believe, a "legendry virtual ranger'.

I had to really think about the name of that title, "legendry virtual ranger...

Thing is, Harry's, what separates you from me, is purely time on the forum, not our passion or ideas.

I have watched the hotel debate with deep pain. Believe me, I understand passion.

From my "humble" perspective, this is a process. Many people, bush loving people are battle weary.
I am battle weary.

Stark, thank you:

thing is, a lot of what happened was about how it happened.

The forum was a very horrible place to be.

Harrys, anyone who tried to defend the hotel, was attacked, en masse.

When I saw the first hotel proclimation, I downloaded all 65 pages. I never read beyond page 5, because I realised processes were in place.

Simply, I wonder, who else did that?

I went back the last couple of weeks and read books from Harry Wolhuter and James Stevenson Hamilton.
My simple, humble conclusion..
they started Kruger after the horror of the boer war, the rindepest disaster.. no animals, no animals at all.

I rode through Kruger today thinking, this is so much bigger than any of us understand. This is simply a miracle.

As far as process goes, there is a lot to learn from this. Many people's anger was because they felt excluded.

If anyone could find the words of Douglas Livingston's poem, "Gentling the Wildcat", is best describes Harry's reaction.

Thank you everyone for your answers , I got mine through DB's responce. Let me just say this there are still unanswered questions and that neither the mods or Sanparks can or want to answer .

I don't want to make enimies or fight with anyone , I asked a question that was bothering me but was answered with another question to give proofe off my so called alligations, just go and look at most off the questions in the Forum Indaba that was asked by the mites, answers that was given by Sanparks and the mods was fague and did, in most cases, not answer the questions. Anyway I don't like to argue about things all I ask is for Sanparks to look after our natural assets so our kids(ALL races) can someday also enjoy this wonder off God's creation

Thank you and have a AWESOME 2012

Harrys, an awesome 2012 to you too.

I am pleased that you feel "heard".

From P'kop.. a very special blessing..

It was yes MM. But the mods assure all members that they will make every effort that there will never be a re-occurrence of that again. Discussion and debate are most welcome - all we ask is that it takes place in a civil and respectful manner. So let us look forward to a wonderful new year on the SANParks forums

To you too Harrys! And we hope you will be much more active on the forums in the new year.

I do not agree with the statement 'the forum was a horrible place to be' and I did read all the 'controversial' topics on a daily basis and contributed occasionally. This is one of the tamest forums I know. I suspect South Africans (as the majority of contributors) were brought up with much stronger discipline and manners than myself and my fellow Australians (anyone seen Australian Parliament Sessions ) so I never thought the threads got too abusive. Robust and a bit heated yes but aren't we all grown ups?

I think the mods on this forum, although sometimes lambasted for being too strict, actually do a top job of keeping things flowing. Of course there will always be controversies - you never can please everyone - but the choices have to be made and the rules followed. We had far too many rules in my opinion when we were at school, but the discipline and respect helped to shape us into what we are. In retrospect it was a good thing. The problem with adults and the idea of democracy is that some people sometimes feel they can say and do whatever they want, and the rest just have to oblige. Which is why we have rules and laws - anarchy never did strengthen a nation.

All in all, ThreeDogs, I think you're right; a wonderful forum to be on!

Hi threedogs,

I agree with OWN.
What you read in the Indaba is not an accurate reflection on posts made, more often than not posts are removed/edited before most members have had a chance to read it.

It is often said that this is a marketing site, yes that is so but it is also an opportunity for SANParks to test the opinions of their most loyal supporters about policy and other matters. Contrary to popular belief, not the mods or SANParks wish to force members to only speak about the positive. We encourage members to air their views too if they don't agree. Much good has come from such discussions because members are the eyes on the ground for SANParks so to speak. I believe the change in policy regarding the alcohol ban and the forced 1 night stay before exiting through a border post, was directly because of members concern on forum. Minor problems were also highlighted and addressed because of members posts.

Having said the above, there is no need to be abusive when disagreeing or bringing up concerns. Yes, we are all grown ups (mostly, some junior members here too ) and grown ups don't have to resort to underhanded tactics (for lack of a better word) to bring their points across. Always play the ball and not the man and all posts are welcome.

Hi guys - this is so true , and also a reason for frustration building up . Personally , I like to see a good argument/debate developing , however , it has happened that topics are locked too quickly
And that is when you start wondering about transparency and so on .

Understandable Okie.

This is very true.
SANParks don't moderate this forum, we the moderators do. In a way SANParks is also another participant on forum just like you guys. Between the 7 of us we have accumulated many years of forum experience and we know when a topic is going south and it's entirely our call to lock or not. We at times have our own pow-wows about it. (All within the rules! )

I've also seen members commenting on "All has been said....".
When a topic has run it's course, posts become repetitive purely because "all has been said" and no one is adding more to it. Now see it from a readers point of view, repetitive posts become boring to a reader and by the second page he stops reading and maybe by doing so he is losing out on valuable information later on. We all know how quickly a boring book is shelved and topics would not have much worth if they do not have reader value.

Okie, just to clarify (which I know has been said already) on that posts that are/were removed, or edited:

Only content that transgress the forum rules is removed, or edited. Again, not what you say, but how you say it. We have kept all the posts and copies, that were taken off - and it is not pretty reading. Wild and unsubstantiated allegations, racism, mudslinging, awful uncalled for attacks on other members, personal attacks, generalizations, deliberate attempts to start flame wars .... not the type of behaviour that encourages good debate or discussion. Those posts only hurt other people and destroy efforts of building bridges and working together to ensure a good future for our National Parks, and this forum; and they ensured topics went for a loop.

They way forward for this forum, is that discussion and debate happen in a civilized and respectful manner. And I can assure you that SANParks want discussion on issues here on these forums.