Skip to content

SANParks.org Forums

View unanswered posts | View active topics






Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 8 of 10
 [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:44 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:30 pm
Posts: 60
Location: London, UK
johanrebel wrote:
When I was up at Pafuri recently, no water was pumped into the Nkovakulu troughs (yes, there are two. If you look carefully you may even see the second one) during the three weeks I was there. The windmill was working, the cistern was full (elephants and baboons could be seen drinking from it), yet not a drop in the troughs. One would imagine that SANParks would check their waterholes regularly. Apparently not.

Johan


Nkovakulu was marked dry per my records from Oct'11 trip. It is on the list as those to go by end of 2015. I guess its safe to assume it has, indeed, gone.

The Map per Duke on Dec 18th (which I have from same Oct'11 trip). does not quite square with official list. Stapelkop is a glaring difference. Map says will go. List says not. Now that is a long drive to see a newly liberated mudpool!

All in all a pretty good forum topic and certainly more info than were their no Sanparks help coming in. I have marked off two of my precious KNP maps with the closures (and thx very much to Johan for confirming some other possibles to actually 'gone').

In the grand scheme of things I feel the KNP approach tends to get things right more often than not. It is the nature of evidence gathering and doing something which might take 25+ years to reveal many of its impacts. Something done for very good reasons in 1980 (based on the then evidence), can now find itself a 25:75 now. It is good and right that KNP is strong enough to update in such scenarios.
Fire policy and water policy are most probably necessary evils, but nothing worse than just sticking evermore to the 'old policy'. Investigate, challenge and renew.
[Off topic but I had some hugely insightful chats with some Yellowstone NP experts on their fire policy, the good news is they know a lot more after 100 years. The bad news is they got a lot wrong in the past. They still have a problem on current policy decisions as 100 years being way too short a data period]

Bottom line on KNP waterholes. I buy into the notion that KNP (as it turns out) have badly disturbed the natural eco-systems due to dams and the many waterholes. I feel they are going the right way about rectifying part of that disturbance. Sadly, the reality is it will possibly take a few generations to undo in full. In proceeding with the 'undo-ing' mistakes will inevitably be made.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:00 am 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:34 pm
Posts: 566
zivvy&muffin wrote:
Nkovakulu was marked dry per my records from Oct'11 trip. It is on the list as those to go by end of 2015. I guess its safe to assume it has, indeed, gone.
Not too sure about that. Bóth troughs were indeed dry in November/December, but the windmill was definitely pumping, and the cistern was so full of water that baboons could sit on the rim and drink. I also often saw animals milling around the troughs which obviously had come in the expectation of finding water, no doubt based on recent experience.

Johan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:34 pm
Posts: 277
Location: Witrivier
This will be interesting to see whether there will be new roads to natural water sources.

As I read this topic and other info well known dams like Transportdam and Sithlavedam will in the near future not be anymore. What about Sunset? Sure it is also man made by the man made road that serves as a dam wall. Can you imagine not stopping there to take decent hippo photos?

When can we expect new roads that leads to natural water.

In the mean time I will enjoy Kruger for as long as still possible.

Regards


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:12 pm 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:46 am
Posts: 217
Location: Randparkridge, RSA
Question: Will the decision to demolish artificial water holes be re-considered if (when?) the fence is re-erected?

_________________
Dupacc

I will join in the song, because I know why I sing. Soli Deo Gloria

TR: Darrlin, lets go to Kruugha!
TR: Looking for them Tigers near Skoo-Ka-Zoo
TR: Impala Kisses and Banana Birds
KNP March 2014: Tamboti, Olifants, Lower Sabie


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:11 pm
Posts: 57
Imagine if the same reasoning applied to man and no dams were built. I wonder how man and industry would cope in times of drought


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:42 pm 
Offline
Junior Virtual Ranger
Junior Virtual Ranger

Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:15 pm
Posts: 782
Some years ago, drought struck northern KZN and the hippos deserted Mkuze and the warthogs were wiped out completely!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:39 pm 
Offline
Senior Virtual Ranger
Senior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:08 am
Posts: 3791
It will save money. :thumbs_up:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 6:40 pm 
Offline
Virtual Ranger
Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:10 pm
Posts: 704
Location: Cape Town
cheetah2111 wrote:
Oumie wrote:
Wait and see what happens when the next drought comes, then u will see how they will scramble to get water for the animals!!

What will happen when drought hits, is what should happen when drought hits.
The animals must fend for themselves :thumbs_up:

I have seen the devastation droughts caused in the past....animals died at a alarming rate! That is why the parks asked for boreholes to be donated. So it will be back to pleading for donations and boreholes :(

_________________
Twee Revieren 5/9/14
Kalahari Tented camp 6/9/14 - 9/9/14

Kruger booked for 2015.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:14 am 
Offline
Senior Virtual Ranger
Senior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2532
Location: VEREENIGING
Hopefully the artificial waterholes were not blasted to smithereens as stated in the announcement, maybe they were just decommissioned and moth balled.

As Oumie stated, she saw the devastation of drought. So have I in the 70's and also in the 80,s; Kudu with pleading eyes, desiccated carcasses of Hippo in the veld, dead crocodiles in the dry beds of the Shingwedzi, Letaba, Olifants and Levhuvu Rivers, Elephant digging wells and then chasing away other animals who dared to come closer in an effort to share the precious commodity.

It is very easy to preach 'no interference with nature' in times of plenty . . . . ., wait til you smell the stench of rotting decay.

_________________
I participate because I care - CUSTOS NATURAE
No to Hotels in and commercialization of our National Parks.
No to Legalized Rhino and Lion trade.
Done 144 visits to National Parks.
What a wonderful privilege.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:11 pm
Posts: 57
I will never forget seeing two hippos huddled together in one of the artificial water troughs on the s100 during one of the drought seasons in the early nineties.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:46 am 
Offline
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
Distinguished Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:51 am
Posts: 4776
Location: Johannesburg SA
FAC Member (2013)
ecojunkie wrote:
During the last drought it was found that many animals died from starvation, not dehydration. The artificial water holes had led to animals being widespread even in the naturally drier areas, and when they tried to move to areas further from water to look for food there it was already eaten by animals based at a water point there. The 'buffer' areas had been eliminated by placing water too evenly throughout the landscape.

In a drought animals will die.....but the stronger ones able to tolerate moving a distance between water sources and food areas will survive and result in a stronger gene pool. That is the way of nature. The balance in numbers of zebras and wildebeest for example fluctuate according to dry or wet years.

I know we have restricted the ability of animals to move over huge areas as in the past by erecting fences, but that is why water points along river areas will be left in place so they can be used to supplement water if necessary.

:clap: :clap:

Let nature take its course. Times of drought are harsh and deadly, but that is the way it is meant to be.

_________________
Kruger 2014!!!

16-23 August - Lower Sabi!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:29 am
Posts: 325
All these theories are all good and well but they are just that. Theories.

The fact remain that Kruger is a restricted area where wild life cannot move to greener pastures such as the case in central Africa. As soon as humans start to restrict or regulate animal movement, the humans will have to take responsibility for those animal lives. If that is by means of culling excess animals or supplying water to areas where surface water does not naturally occur, or even bringing in new genes for species such as Roan or Lichtenstein hartebees. These are all ways in which humans will have to interfere at some stage in an enclosed environment. Like running a massive game farm.

If these measures are not implemented Elephants and buffalo will overpopulate and destroy the bush and push other species out of their little space in nature.

To avoid accusations and people including myself from pointing fingers and asking questions about the reasoning behind decisions for doing things and not doing others. SANParks should have a clear plan where the lines of "nature on its own vs humans will interfere" are clearly drawn. And made public. Will a Uber greeny approach be followed and no animals will get culled ever even if they destroy the habitat of other species beyond repair and forcing those species into extinction?

Hiding behind reports and not answering questions will only make people who are entitled to their own views and some with loads of experience in conservation outside SANParks doubt the leadership and motives of SANParks.

ecojunkie wrote:
I know we have restricted the ability of animals to move over huge areas as in the past by erecting fences, but that is why water points along river areas will be left in place so they can be used to supplement water if necessary.


For instance it should be clear when SANParks will deem it necessary to supplement water? How many animals of each species can the park hold and what is a good ratio for a stable ecosystem. What measures will be used to keep the system as stable as possible. (everyone knows the park has way to many elephants but SANPArks will not do anything about it as it might anger some people).

In the original report it was stated that "Natural alternatives" will be used to replace the boreholes? This has not been explained and it is not clear if some roads will now close down or just become a deserted road with no water points or animals?


The problem with most scientific reports are that they are the opinion of the guy with the time to write it. If that person is a important person or his/hers views are values greatly then what they say will eventually become law. Allow the public to ask questions and be man enough to listen and then answer the questions If people are informed they are much happier and easier to deal with.


Just my 2c worth........

_________________
Not in Kruger.... Busy planning the next trip...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:04 am 
Offline
Virtual Ranger
Virtual Ranger

Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 6:20 am
Posts: 1046
I agree that informing the public is very important to bring a clearer understanding to the conservation management of the park.

However, I would say as a biologist, that both the understanding of ecological systems and how those systems operate in a managed area like KNP is unbelievably complex. In fact the understanding of these systems continues to evolve as more research is carried out over time. One must remember that whilst ecosystems have some patterns over time it is in a constant state of flux. There are so many factors such as the variable seasonal weather, longer term climate change, impacts of closed areas, disease outbreaks, fire events etc etc
It is the challenge of every biologist and ecologist to further the understanding into how all these factors interact within a particular ecosystem over any given period of time. The potential areas of study are infinite.
When a scientist publishes a paper they are not publishing their opinion. They are publishing the question they are addressing, the recognised scientific methodology used in the study, the statistical results of the data collected and then the interpretation of what those results show. Their work is then placed in context of other studies relevant to the question which have already been published. Conservation managers can only use good research that is available at the time to inform their decisions. Often subsequent research may point to a different approach or way forward and we have to live with the past decisions made.

Unfortunately, wild roaming populations of the past are no longer a reality. We have to manage these restricted areas as best we can and given the complexities involved it is one of the greatest challenges of our time. In our decisions we will win some, we will lose some. It is imperative that funding for research continues so that we can continue to hone our understanding and management skills.

_________________
NO TO TRADE IN RHINO HORN!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:12 am 
Offline
Legendary Virtual Ranger
Legendary Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:05 am
Posts: 7002
Location: Back home in the caravan at Malelane camp, KNP
KNP work within Thresholds of Potential Concern (TPCs) and a Strategic Adaptive Management approach. It is a complicated system, but allows for adaptation and constant feedback loops.

_________________
Smiling is contagious. Start an epidemic today!

Have you read the gate leaflet? Do you KNOW the regulations?

Completed over 5 years in Kruger in my caravan.

If I were normal I wouldn't be me!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: KNP to demolish its artificial water holes
Unread postPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:22 am 
Offline
Senior Virtual Ranger
Senior Virtual Ranger
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:52 pm
Posts: 2532
Location: VEREENIGING
I am always amazed at all the fancy buzzwords and slogans used and flung left right and centre. :)

_________________
I participate because I care - CUSTOS NATURAE
No to Hotels in and commercialization of our National Parks.
No to Legalized Rhino and Lion trade.
Done 144 visits to National Parks.
What a wonderful privilege.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 144 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

Webcams Highlights

Addo Nossob Orpen Satara
Addo Nossob Orpen Satara
Submitted by Sebakwe at 14:16:44 Submitted by Kiepersol at 06:58:45 Submitted by Mellory at 19:15:39 Submitted by Ellies at 20:13:40