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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:55 pm 
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deefstes wrote:
The evenly coloured tertials with pale tips, in my view, points strongly towards AHH though and that is probably what I'd put my money on.



By the way Deefstes , I would hardly call the tertials evenly coloured , they look rather mottled to me anyway! The secondaries on the other hand are fairly evenly coloured with pale tips - maybe you were thinking about those? If so , this is not really a good caracter for AHH since it is shared with a number of other raptorspecies - among them AHE!

Cheers
Jon


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:01 pm 
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Lizet Grobbelaar wrote:
Just to defent my choice: Juv. AHE also has bare tibias so this is not really a feature to go with.


...and no Lizet , AHE has feathered (/furred) legs - both tibia and tarsus , albeit sometimes difficult to discern , when it comes to the tarsus anyway.... - sorry for playing the schoolmaster!

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Jon


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:12 pm 
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Sorry Deefstes & JOL thanks for showing that out! :redface:
It's the Tarsus(area just above the foot) I was talking about.
In juv (not sure about imm.) AHE the Tarsus is also bare with no feathers..

In two different Raptor guides this is actually illustrated and has even photos of individuals showing the bare tarsus, so sorry for the confusion from my side.


Last edited by Lizet Grobbelaar on Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Have a look at this image of an immature AHH posted on the Forums by Mathew:

Image

Here

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 12:50 pm 
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Mgoddard wrote:
So, here I am again...still not able to ID birds by myself....
Seen this one on the road to LSabie 2 days ago...


Falconry4ever wrote:
I think African Hawk juv. as feet look very stocky and tail is much shorter than that of the AHH.

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:04 am 
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Imberbe wrote:
Have a look at this image of an immature AHH posted on the Forums by Mathew:

Image

Here

Imberbe,
Thanks but did you noticed that the above raptor doesn't have the fine uppertail barring that is typical in the young AHE? There is uppertail barring present in young AHH but normally broadly spaced apart. :huh:
Maybe another clue that it's not a AHH :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:18 am 
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Hi Imberbe ,

Good job finding these nice pictures of a young AHH! No doubt the plumage resembles our mystery bird quite a bit , but as it is often the case , the devil lies in the detail and , as I mentioned earlier , lots of raptors show a similar general plumage – dark brown tail and upper side contrasting with paler underside (when perched).
Lizet has already mentioned one of the characters – the tail pattern – distinguishing this bird from the mystery bird , and I think pretty much all the other arguments as to why this is not an AHH , mentioned earlier in this discussion , still holds true when comparing to these photos. I will not go through all of them again , but the eye alone is a major reason why this is not an AHH!
Nice to see these new AHH pictures though , and interesting to see how difficult or easy it is to see the bare facial skin on the different photos.

Cheers
Jon


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:22 am 
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PS. Imberbe , I sure like the way you fight for what you believe this bird to be , but you’re fighting a loosing battle on this one… - trust me!!


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:56 am 
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:lol: No, I don't know enough about birds ... and that photo is too unclear ... to fight about that one. Merely giving a reference on a bird we are discussing! :thumbs_up:

But I do like stirring at times ... just to keep the birding buffs busy! :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:57 pm 
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Imberbe wrote:
But I do like stirring at times ...


That you do! :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Sorry, I did not get a notification of replies to the bird in question. Im busy uploading bigger and also more views and that will hopefully help you all. The connection is not wonderful, so it takes a while....will post the other pics this pm or this eve....Thanks for the comment and the PM on the blog to alert me to this.

Mgoddard

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 2:20 pm 
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:thumbs_up: Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:59 pm 
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Ok, so I have tried to make these bigger, if you still cant see it....then click on the www button which will take you to my flickr page and you can see the originals that are about 3MB...

Image

Image

Hope you can now ID this bird.

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 4:56 pm 
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Mgoddard,
Thanks for the trouble.

I still think it's a AHE. The second pic shows the white patch in the primaries, the legs look very narrow feathered and paler than the breast and then there is the narrow barring on the uppertail coverts and pale eye.


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:22 pm 
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Very helpful to get the added photo of the bird with stretched wings! Although the bird is certainly unusually white speckled on the upper side , I would have to agree that this is an immature African hawk eagle. I think the only real contender is Ayre’s hawk eagle , which I don’t believe show a pale area at the base of the primaries – the adults definitely don’t.


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