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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:09 pm 
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Virtual Ranger
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maiper,
:thumbs_up: I agree with African HE and not Ayres's HE as they lack the heavy streaks of Ayres which extend as far down as the belly and legs,


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Lizet Grobbelaar wrote:
maiper,
:thumbs_up: I agree with African HE and not Ayres's HE as they lack the heavy streaks of Ayres which extend as far down as the belly and legs,


Thanks Lizet ! Very useful :D


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:02 pm 
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So, here I am again...still not able to ID birds by myself....
Seen this one on the road to LSabie 2 days ago...

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 8:40 pm 
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Mgoddard,
I would say Juv. African Hawk-Eagle.


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2009 9:30 pm 
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Hi Lizet, my first thought also quite difficult to ID especially when not adult!


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:59 am 
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Why not juv. African Harrier Hawk?

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:11 am 
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AHH :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:32 am 
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Rusty Justy wrote:
Why not juv. African Harrier Hawk?


...Because both adult and immature AHH has a bare patch of skin around the eye , and because the eye itself is dark on that species. It's hard to see details on this photo , but I'm pretty sure this raptor doesn't meet either of these two criteria.
Lizets suggestion seems more likely to me , but it would be nice with a bigger/better quality/closer croped picture of this bird....

Cheers
Jon


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:44 am 
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Yes, indeed a better or bigger photo would be helpful! :pray:

The area around the eye is not really visible. But, I have seen photos where the "bare patch" is not at all prominent, especially at the back of the eye, in juvenile AHH. In the adult it is very prominent.

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:10 am 
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I have a suggestion! Lets put the photo on the Bird quiz and see who makes what ID! :twisted: :roll: 8) :thumbs_up:

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:39 am 
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Eish, this is an interesting one. My first thoughts were also African Hawk-Eagle but the more I look at the bird the more the plumage seem to tally with African Harrier-Hawk somewhere between the first and second juvenile plumages. The legs appear to be bare which would also support that.

That said, the facial features just doesn't work for me and I have a hard time accepting AHH. They eye appears yellow (which is actually incorrect for AHE as well) but I don't think I would set too much store by this one feature.

The evenly coloured tertials with pale tips, in my view, points strongly towards AHH though and that is probably what I'd put my money on.

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:54 am 
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Just to defent my choice: Juv. AHE also has bare tarsus so this is not really a feature to go with.
It's just that the giss of this bird (to me) appears more that of a "mean" bulky Raptor with thick claws - especially if you consider the hind toe, rather than a slender small-headed Raptor. AHH has long slender tibias with long toes. I don't see the extended head feathers but as all agree, if we have a better pic to enlarge, it will all be clear.

So Mgoddard can't you load this one in maybe 200dpi instead of the 72dpi so we can crop and zoom in?


Last edited by Lizet Grobbelaar on Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:00 pm 
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Lizet Grobbelaar wrote:
Juv. AHE also has bare tibias so this is not really a feature to go with.

I didn't know that! Very interesting and that certainly would put my misgivings regarding the legs to rest. I agree that the giss doesn't seem good for AHH at all. I'm backing off on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:07 pm 
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You can't back off now, the fun only started!
I missed the brown eye in juv.AHE so we are even!
If you go to the AHE in Moegaais Index (page 1), there is an example of a Juv. AHE with a yellow eye but in a much further stage to adult-hood....


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 Post subject: Re: Identification Help - Raptors
Unread postPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:38 pm 
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Well guys , while we are all waiting for a better quality photo , here are some of my thoughts on this one:

From this picture alone , this bird certainly doesn’t look like an AHH to me! Imberbe is right that the bare facial skin can be difficult to see on a low quality photo like this one , but it contributes to that species pretty “gentle” facial expression. This bird however , has the typical fierce expression , with the piercing yellowish eye and prominent eyebrow , of the hawk eagles and “real” eagles.
It’s also true , as stated by Deestest , that juvenile AHE usually has a brown rather than yellowish iris , but there are exceptions to that rule , and anyway the colour changes towards yellow during the immature phases (I don’t see any evidence that this is a juvenile rather than an immature bird). AHH on the other hand has a dark iris in all ages , and this feature alone should rule out that species – I’ve never seen an AHH with a yellowish iris anyway!
Regarding the tarsus and foot , I agree with Lizet that it looks more eagle-like and to powerful for AHH , and the same can be said about the bill. I think it’s extremely difficult to see if the tarsus is bare (as in AHH) or lightly “feathered” (as in AHE) on this photo – the tibia is heavily feathered on both species by the way. The feathers on the tarsus of a AHE can be so short that it looks more like fur , and can be almost impossible to se – check this picture to see how much it can vary , even on the same bird (!): http://www.realbirder.com/NamibiaD/Bird ... kEagle.jpg
It’s true that the plumage isn’t to far of target for an AHH , but not really for AHE – and a number of other species for that matter – either. My initial concern – plumage wise – regarding AHE is the pale mottled back and wingcoverts. Normally young AHE’s show a pretty uniform dark brown upper side , but maybe this can be explained by moult , thus making it an immature bird for sure.
As I said , I feel confident that this is not an AHH , but I think it would be wise to wait for a better photo before concluding anything else for sure.

…and yes Ferdelance , this would be a good one for the Challenge , albeit with a better photo quality , and of course the quizmaster would have to know the answer…

Cheers
Jon


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