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Goshawk, Dark Chanting

Identify and index birds in Southern Africa

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Haplo
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby Haplo » Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:43 pm

My first question would be, Where did you see it?


In KNP - on the Phabeni road.
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby Rusty Justy » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:33 pm

Dark Chanting Goshawk.......The excessive barring appears too fine for Gabar.
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby JOL » Mon Mar 30, 2009 1:08 am

Rusty Justy wrote:Dark Chanting Goshawk.......The excessive barring appears too fine for Gabar.


Hi guys ,

Good thinking from everybody! I agree with JoelR that gabar goshawk should certainly be considered with this bird , and with Arks that knowing the location is always helpful... - and this one is a bit tricky. However , after looking at some photos of goshawks tonight , I think Rusty Justy is right. Not many conclusive characters can be seen on this picture , so the barring on the chest and belly is probably the best indication. The chanting goshawks indeed has finer barring than gabar , and I'm pretty sure that this one is a dark chanting goshawk.

Jon

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby JoelR » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:46 am

Mmm, you guys are probably right. I overlooked the fine barring. I thought the blackish tail bars were typical for Gabar, but I did dig up some photos of DCG that show something similar. Also, usually the Gabar looks more 'friendly' and the chanting Goshawak more 'mean', which also got me on the wrong track here apparently.

@Haplo: the difference between Dark & Pale is very small, but since you saw your bird in Kruger it is quite safe to say this is a Dark Chanting Goshawk.

It's funny, this is one of those birds that's harder to ID from a photo than when you actually see it. (Gabar is quite a bit smaller than its chanting relatives)

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby JOL » Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:37 am

I know what you mean , JoelR. The tail also had me thinking of gabar , with the clear black and white banding , and apparent long and slender look. To bad that the tip is not visible , since it would probably have made this character so much better – anymore photos of this bird , Haplo?
I also agree that when choosing between gabar and the chanting goshawk , the call should be fairly easy in the field , whereas it can actually be very difficult on photos….

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby Haplo » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:16 pm

Thanks to everybody who has helped on this one, but can't unfortunately help with other pictures, we stayed and watched him for a while, but he was so close that it seemed like a better idea to get up close and personal with him, unfortunately, not a single photo of the entire bird with his hail complete..... :cry:

Will do better next time and get the whole bird.
From my limited knowledge (at the moment!) (I am learning fast and furious :D ) We have had the priviledge of seeing a Lizard buzzard up close as well, and I must say this bird was considerably larger than the buzzard.

For the record - bought a copy of the Sasol Birds of Prey by Alan and Meg Kemp, ISBN 978-1-77007-369-2 today, and had a good look this evening.
I'm pretty sure he is a DCG - the tail of the bird was short in comparison to his body, not long like the Gabar.
So when in doubt trust the experts, thanks guys - and buy a book.
A wise old owl sat on an oak; The more he saw the less he spoke; The less he spoke the more he heard; Why aren't we like that wise old bird?
"Author Unknown"
Do-nv-da-go-hv-i
until we meet again - Cherokee language

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby Bush Baptist » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:34 pm

Haplo, the chanting goshawks territory is mutually exclusive, so if you saw it in Kgalagadi or near Barrydale, it would be the PCG, in Kruger it is the DCG.
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby Rusty Justy » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:40 pm

Pleasure Haplo :thumbs_up: The more you practise, the easy it gets!!! Just learn what to look for in similar species, and ID's will come quick and Easy(Most of the time) :twisted: :D
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Re: Identification Help - General Birds

Unread postby JOL » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:21 am

Haplo wrote:Thanks to everybody who has helped on this one, but can't unfortunately help with other pictures, we stayed and watched him for a while, but he was so close that it seemed like a better idea to get up close and personal with him, unfortunately, not a single photo of the entire bird with his hail complete..... :cry:

Will do better next time and get the whole bird.
From my limited knowledge (at the moment!) (I am learning fast and furious :D ) We have had the priviledge of seeing a Lizard buzzard up close as well, and I must say this bird was considerably larger than the buzzard.

For the record - bought a copy of the Sasol Birds of Prey by Alan and Meg Kemp, ISBN 978-1-77007-369-2 today, and had a good look this evening.
I'm pretty sure he is a DCG - the tail of the bird was short in comparison to his body, not long like the Gabar.
So when in doubt trust the experts, thanks guys - and buy a book.

Hi Haplo ,
With your comments here , the extra photos aren't really needed. The size alone excludes gabar goshawk! Keep up the god spirit , when it comes to birds , the learning is a never ending process.....

Jon

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Identification help, Raptors

Unread postby Haplo » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:32 pm

Image

Now I'm sure the smart guys will get this one in no time JOL, RJ... - but I don't Know!!! :doh:
Seen in Kruger, somewhere between Berg-en-Dal and Lower Sabie on one of the dirt roads.......
A wise old owl sat on an oak; The more he saw the less he spoke; The less he spoke the more he heard; Why aren't we like that wise old bird?
"Author Unknown"
Do-nv-da-go-hv-i
until we meet again - Cherokee language

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby JOL » Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:12 pm

Haplo wrote:Now I'm sure the smart guys will get this one in no time JOL, RJ... - but I don't Know!!! :doh:
Seen in Kruger, somewhere between Berg-en-Dal and Lower Sabie on one of the dirt roads.......

Hi Haplo ,

Your raptor from Krüger is surely some sort of young goshawk. I've not yet figured out the finer nuances regarding these juvenile/immature plumages , but this bird definitely looks like a chanting goshawk to me. Considering the location , I would have to say dark chanting goshawk , unless someone can make a compelling case for another species…

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby Niall » Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:04 pm

Haplo, I have to say my first impression is a Southern banded Snake Eagle, a little out of range, but not impossible in that area. Do you have other shots?

Cheers

Niall.

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby Rusty Justy » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:12 pm

Looks like Dark-Chanting Goshawk Haplo! :D
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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby JoelR » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:22 pm

JOL & Rusty Justy, you both seem confident that Haplo's bird is a goshawk - but how do you guys explain the very bright yellow eye, the thicker brown barring underneath and the flat head?

Just like Niall I also immediatly thought of a snake-eagle. I have never seen Southern Banded SE myself, but two photos on www.birdpics.co.za do seem very similar to the bird in Haplo's photo.

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Re: Identification Help - Raptors

Unread postby Johann » Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:34 pm

JoelR wrote:...Just like Niall I also immediatly thought of a snake-eagle. I have never seen Southern Banded SE myself, but two photos on http://www.birdpics.co.za do seem very similar to the bird in Haplo's photo.


I had the same first reaction as Niall and Joel. That would be quite a great tick for Kruger!
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