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 Post subject: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:26 pm 
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According to all my literature, the Ross's Lourie is a very scarce bird from Zambia, with only a very few breeding pairs in South Africa, in captivity. We have seen one in Kruger on the Skukuza / Lower Sabie Road on Saturday 27 February. I had a very good look, although it darted from place to place in typical shy lourie style. Could someone please advise if this is possible?


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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:57 pm 
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I doubt that it is a Ross's Turaco (formerly Lourie) unless it was a RT that has escaped from captivity. It is a rare visitor to the Okavango region although none were spotted during our 3 visits. We have seen one on the banks of the Kafue river in Zambia. If a Purple Crested Turaco is sitting under thick foliage, the colour of their feathers will look darker than what you will see in the bird books.

I assume that no pictures were taken!

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:28 pm 
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Thanks for the quick response. It gave me a chance to reverse a few meters to have a better look and I'm quite sure of what I saw, quite close to the road, a dark lourie with red on the head, yellow face and the red wings in flight, and of course the typical lourie shape. It was darting from dry twig to dry twig for a while, after it disappeared to go too far where I couldn't follow. Unfortunately no pictures, it showed itself only for a very short while, and never longer than a few seconds in one place. But I thought it was much darker than the purple crested turaco, it was more solid in colour, not the different colours of the purple crested touraco. Well, have to go back and search for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Thats the type of bird you need a pic of for anyone to believe you! Although I do from your description.
If indeed it was, it probably is an escapee...but after all it has wings so nothing stopping it from flying down South although the odds would be about 1 in a billion! :thumbs_up:
Interestingly what about Collared Palm Thrushes in Shingwedzi - where did they come from? I am sure that there must be some bird populations that are to be found in Southern Africa in locations previously unknown!

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:11 pm 
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o-dog wrote:
If indeed it was, it probably is an escapee.!


Escapee :huh: What on earth is that? and where from? Who keeps exotic birds well into a National Park.

Mods, I would like the experts to comment here please so maybe a separate thread is in order.

Were the Openbills I saw 1900 km out of their territory 3 weeks ago escapees?
Or the indigo birds a few months ago. If so, who is 'capturing' our birds and 'letting them out' in odd places. I would like to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:37 pm 
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I think a trip back to KNP is a definite must, after all dalenedp knows exactly where to look, I dont think there will be a shortage of volunteers to go along on such an important expidition.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2010 11:44 pm 
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Bush Baptist a bit of common sense is needed here :huh:

Firstly an escapee is a bird that leaves a place of captivity. Secondly surrounding Kruger are many captive birds in various situations, whether for public viewing or not - if a bird escapes it can easily end up in KNP and as far as I know the Ross's Lourie has been recorded as an escapee previously (if you dont believe in such a word). And if it were seen close to Skukuza then thats only a few km from the reserve border, easy flying distance.

Now for your poor comparison with that of OBS well these birds fly long distances in search of good feeding areas. They can more easily end up well out of range than a bird which is quite localised. If you look at all rare bird records 99% of the ones that end up as 'megaticks' are those that migrate or travel long distances and often get lost due to things like reverse migration etc and any bird that doesn't travel long distance that is found far out of range is presumed to escape from a private collection/avery unless proven otherwise as its nearly impossible for it to travel such a long way. What about the Kookaburras seen in Melrose (joburg) a while back? Do you think they are escapees or they flew from Australia?

Dont also make the assumption that those who reply have no knowledge...tell me who you need as an expert to answer this question?

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:31 am 
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Good grief, please let us not again start ruffling up one anothers feathers.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:42 am 
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o-dog,

I think you explained it very well, thank you! There were several records in the past of Ross's in South Africa, but all turned out to be escapees. The only 2 records that's been recognised are from the very Northern Borders of Southern Africa - Cunene and Okavango

In 1998 we saw a few Black-cheeked Lovebirds in Okakujo(Etosha) and after following them they led us to an avary of the staff members which had a hole in! Boy was that a disappointment!


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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:55 pm 
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o-dog wrote:
Bush Baptist a bit of common sense is needed here :huh: ?

OK. But as one of many forumites who are enthusiastic amateur birders, I do not know what birds are permitted to be held in captivity.
o-dog wrote:
Firstly an escapee is a bird that leaves a place of captivity. Secondly surrounding Kruger are many captive birds in various situations, whether for public viewing or not - if a bird escapes it can easily end up in KNP, easy flying distance.
Fair enough

o-dog wrote:
Now for your poor comparison with that of OBS well these birds fly long distances in search of good feeding areas. They can more easily end up well out of range than a bird which is quite localised. If you look at all rare bird records 99% of the ones that end up as 'megaticks' are those that migrate or travel long distances and often get lost due to things like reverse migration etc and any bird that doesn't travel long distance that is found far out of range is presumed to escape from a private collection/avery unless proven otherwise as its nearly impossible for it to travel such a long way. What about the Kookaburras seen in Melrose (jhb) a while back? Do you think they are escapees or they flew from Australia?

I don't know, that is why I am asking. Thanks for the insight.
o-dog wrote:
Dont also make the assumption that those who reply have no knowledge...tell me who you need as an expert to answer this question?

You are obviously an expert I am looking for, albeit smarmy & arrogant.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:40 pm 
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:thumbs_up: Lizet
Ahh I can only imagine...it must have been so exciting when you realised what they were at the time, and then to find they came from the staff village-how crazy!!! Its amazing what people keep even in National Parks!
Anyway interesting about those 2 records, I do remember keeping a hopeful eye out around Katima Mulilo! they really haven't come down that South into Southern Africa...now odds of seeing one would be similar to winning the lotto or something!

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:15 am 
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BB Ive seen quite a few birds, I would say I know a few things about them but I don't consider myself an expert and at no stage said that I was. Im not here to argue I just gave a response to a reply of yours regarding 'escapees'. If you know anything about birds which I am sure you do (as I see your input all over this forum even a lot in the bird threads), you will understand my response and shouldn't be offended by it considering you simply undermined it because you didn't deme it to be from an expert. If someone answers its usually because they have decent input-you will notice that on this forum. Its not a competition between forumites as you seem to think it is. Maybe this is just your nature but calling someone 'smarmy & arrogant' for no apparent reason is unnecessary.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:38 am 
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:o Wow still going on.

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Done 144 visits to National Parks.
What a wonderful privilege.


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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:29 pm 
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I apologise to o-dog for the 'smarmy' and arrogant' comment I made. It was a bit harsh. I also think that you should read your post again, and you should then revisit 'no apparent reason', as I find it condescending.

I am the guy who asks the question 50 others are too scared to ask, in case they look stoopid, which I don't mind doing.

There are a lot of unanswered parts like;

I thought it was illegal to keep SA birds without a permit? What is the purpose? Financial gain? Illegal export?
Size is no guide, because waders fly from Arctic tundra to West Coast NP. Kookaburras I don't think fly here by themselves.
Where can I find a list of what migrates where and what is endemic so that I can broaden my knowledge?
How do you assess whether a bird IS an escapee or not. JVR has seen Orange River white-eyes in Standerton. How do you decide? Can anyone give an unemotional answer please. I am sure there are others less experienced than myself who would also like to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Ross's Lourie
Unread postPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:09 pm 
Bush Baptist wrote:
How do you assess whether a bird IS an escapee or not. JVR has seen Orange River white-eyes in Standerton. How do you decide?


I’m not going to get involved in the rest of this….but just something interesting on the above point.
While we still lived in Moz, I had a whole group of Red-headed Finches (males and females) that frequently visited our garden…these birds were sooo far out of range…and the habitat in Maputo definitely did not fit in with their normal habitat.
With the help of some of the ‘mites on this forum, I send my photo to Trevor Hardaker. In my email to him I mentioned that there is a lucrative wild birds trade in Moz…and asked whether these birds could maybe be escapees. Although, I also wondered how the people in Moz could have gotten hold of these birds…the birds in the bird trade were all indigenous to Moz.
He replied that he had a look at the condition of the feathers of the finches I photographed, and based on this, he did not believe them to be escapees…. rather just out of range.
I suppose one will have to at least have a photo to look at the bird’s condition in order to determine if a bird was indeed an escapee…. :?


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