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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:51 pm 
Or ,maybe?? :hmz: could they be Alf shy? :hmz:

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Picnic i am sure they are alian shy but when you drive around all the animals run away when they see a car not talking about any humans. Makes you wonder why?

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:16 pm 
alf wrote:
Picnic i am sure they are alian shy but when you drive around all the animals run away when they see a car not talking about any humans. Makes you wonder why?


Can there be any hunting activity? :hmz: therefor explaining the shyness? :hmz:


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:54 pm 
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Its a national park and therefore no hunting will be allowed. But yes it does make you wonder. The only lion sighting for the day was on the 4x4 route. Which is far away from normal public roads.

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2011 10:58 am 
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Me and my wife visited the Karoo National Park at the end of October 2011 and were lucky enough to spot a group of 6 lions twice in two days. They were made up of 5 lionesses and one young male. The young male however looked very ill and this was brought under the attention of the rangers. I enquired for a few days in November and was told that the lions was going to be put in a boma to recover. I found out today that it infact died and that it was a result of a snake bite. Maybe I am wrong but seeing that these lions are still being monitored to ensure they settle in nicely why was nothing done sooner. Surely this lion could have been saved. :( :(


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Welcome to the forum DP.

SANP policy is non-interference with nature.

It is just bad luck on the lion's part.....

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:13 am 
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Bush Baptist wrote:
Welcome to the forum DP.

SANP policy is non-interference with nature.

It is just bad luck on the lion's part.....

I understand all that BB but this is maybe a bit different as they were still "keeping an Eye" on these lions via tracking ext. Surely they must do everything in their power to ensure these lions adapt to the area. The head ranger still said to me they have called on a dart team to get the lion to a boma for treatment. Obviously they did not do that. He could have given me the same answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Glad you are clued up DP. :thumbs_up:

I think it has got a lot to do with the fact that lions in KNP are scarce and it would be costly to get replacements if they snuff it.

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:58 pm 
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Bush Baptist wrote:
Glad you are clued up DP. :thumbs_up:

I think it has got a lot to do with the fact that lions in KNP are scarce and it would be costly to get replacements if they snuff it.

Thanks BB. Ja, it is sad. I must however say the other lions look wonderfull. It is worth to go and have a peek. I was also impressed with the camping facilities in KNP, if you are into the camping seen. Allways used to drive past and tell my wife "we gotto go there". Finally did. Well worth it.
Thanks for the interest. :D


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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:47 am 
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DanPawson

Thank you for you very interesting but sad info about the Karoo lions!

Having followed their journey from KTFP to Addo to Nyathi to Karoo National Park, I am concerned about the danger of INBREEDING in our Karoo Lion population...

If I remember correctly -- Megan, please help us! -- the two senior lionesses are Kamqua (Ex-Kgalagadi) and Megan (daugter of Aardlam x Bitterbal). Somewhere I read that they were put on contraceptives (an injection) on arrival in the park, because Karoo cannot afford too many lions too soon... this should last 2 years, till about Spring 2012...

Now we have 3 junior lionesses, sired by Nossob/Bitterbal coalition in Nyathi/boma at Addo, with mother being Megan +/or Kamqua.

This means some of these young lionesses are descendents of Bitterbal/Nossob 2x already!

If they come into oestrus later this year, who will mate with them? Their father + grandfather!

Question: I would hate to see poor Nossob/Bitterbal moved again, but what other male is available to sire cubs with these young lionesses? -- perhaps Nomad (ex Kgalagadi) or one of Sally's (Kuzuko) young male cubs that must have grown up by now. I am not sure who their father was, but I guess a young male like Mat or Amla wouldn't qualify either (sired by Nossob)...?

Megan, do let us know your longterm goals for these lions. I am sure you have a very good plan already, which would most likely mean NO cubs from 5 lionesses simultaneously! Imagine the Karoo population shooting up to 20 lions within a few months!

God bless for 2012! :D

Friedrich von Hörsten

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:36 am 
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Hi DanPawson,
To clarify the situation regarding the male juvenile lion who died:

The Honorary Rangers first reported to the Snr Section Ranger that the male lion juvenile was not looking very well and visitor reports later confirmed this. The rangers tracked down the pride and decided that it would be best to dart the young male and put it in a boma to see what was wrong, in case it had a disease which could affect the rest of the pride.

At first, as it was a weekend, no vets were available to come out to dart and assess the lion. When vets were able to come out, the pride had moved into an inaccessible area and efforts to call them out using a carcass were not successful. Before vets/rangers could get to the lions again, the male died. It was then established that the lion died from a puffadder bite.

As the cause of death was natural, we should accept it is as nature’s way. Intervention would probably not have saved the lion because there was a lot of tissue damage from the snake venom. Mortality rates in young and sub adult lions are naturally generally high.

SANParks’ policy is aimed at minimum interference in the natural system. We do take special precautions and actions when a species is threatened or endangered and also if we need to check whether disease is breaking out. In these cases, we might manage animals on an individual basis. The purpose of monitoring the lions in Karoo NP is not to check whether they have adapted to the park – they have been there for over a year and are in good condition, so have already settled in – but to monitor how they are impacting the herbivore populations and how they are using the habitat. Of course, we can also keep visitors updated on their movements too :)

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:10 am 
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Regarding your comments and questions on lion management, Friedrich:

SANParks manages the lion population in Karoo NP as a megapopulation which includes the lions in Addo and other parks. We use various management tools to do so, including translocation and contraception. This ensures that there is minimal inbreeding and that lion populations due not exceed the numbers necessary for a balance in the ecosystem dynamics.

The lionesses have been contracepted, and once the subadult lionesses reach breeding age, they will probably also be contracepted. The current contraception method that is being used is active for 2 years. The subadult male would have been translocated to another park or private reserve to ensure he did not breed with his sisters or mother.

You are correct with your "family tree" dynamics mentioned in your post, Friedrich.

Here are some photos of the lions taken in December 2011 in the riverbed near Embizweni cottage:

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Megan

Thank you so much for these lovely pictures! The lionesses have really grown up beautifully.

Still need to see them in Karoo one day, when they decide to come down from the hills!

God bless,

Friedrich von Hörsten

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:59 pm 
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Thank you for filling us in on the 'intervention' policy, which will be supported by all nature lovers except (maybe) the most emotional.

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 Post subject: Re: Karoo Lions
Unread postPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:56 pm 
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We visited Karoo National Park in December - here are some of our Lion sightings:

Image

Bitterbal?

Image

Nossob?

Image

Young Lioness
Image

More Karoo photos at:
http://www.bvphotography.co.za/2012/01/karoo-national-park-holiday/


Enjoy


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