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 Post subject: Re: Augrabies Night Drive Sightings
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:29 pm 
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Hi AG,

Of Course no Method will be to 100% sure. If you argue like that, all Monitoring activities are useless. And to that point I´d like to disagree. If you want to proteckt something you have to know who is in this Area and in which nombers. Everything else ist pure spekulations ... .

Anyway what is about the other Predators like Jackals or Caracal??? Also no numbers available??? To say it´s to "exhausting" to "expensive" to "difficult" that is no argument for me. Other Areas are also dealing with this Matter e.g. in Namibia... . After my studies that I have done I have to conclude a good Naturla Conservation is only possble with a great monitoring in all Aspekts of the ecology. An Over- or Underpopulation is always a high Risk.....

Best Regards

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 Post subject: Re: Augrabies Night Drive Sightings
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:02 pm 
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Malealea,there is simply different forms of monitoring,they are not useless they give usefull data where other methods can't be use.
These cybertrackers have build in GPS,which downloaded gives a complete form of sightings,on a map.
Namibia seems to have a large population of leopards,also with a large amount of human wildlife conflict,according to recent studies, 700 stock losses per year.
Also interesting is that even in Namibia a form of monitoring to establish densities for the whole country was used by means of calculations.


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 Post subject: Re: Augrabies Night Drive Sightings
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:26 pm 
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Malealea ,I am trying to get hold of Conservation Services for you as Augrabies Guru suggested Please be patient and as soon as I get an answer I will be in touch

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 Post subject: Re: Augrabies Night Drive Sightings
Unread postPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:16 pm 
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Hi AG,

The Numbers of Predators have to be seen critically, because they are differing alot in Namibia. All Scintific Papers complai about the Situation, that either the monitoring is missing completly or the Numbers are wrong. Even Official Numbers don´t semm to be correkt. But they have realised the Problem and improve it. One exampel of better monitoring ist the Community based Tourism Projekts, where locals get more and more involved. But Namibia have learnt from that Problem. You can´t expeckt an hurry change as you already mentioned this Topic is quite complicated :whistle: :hmz: :mrgreen: . But the deal with it. In the last Years a lot of Game Counting have startet, because esspecially the Numbers of Predators increaesed raüpidly e.g. Lion population. Because of the Pressure they are moving South now. Prides are already listet close to Palmwaag. If we could trust the rumors then they might went already till the Kuisen Canyon. But so far not scintific verfikation.... . Except the Wild Dogs all Game seems to be stable or increasing.

In South Afrika that is other way Around.... :whistle: The game got less and more less If I could trust the Numbers I read..... .

Anway that lead us to the nextquestion, how comes if you are doing monitoring, that you are not able to statte rough number... . After your statements you do tracking via GPS. Its indeed an intresting Method, how does it work???

Hi Dotty,

I´m patient :mrgreen: :shock: but great that you like to organise some Details for me. I can only talk about myself I do enjoy the conversation. It is very intresting...

Best regards

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 Post subject: Re: Augrabies Night Drive Sightings
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:48 am 
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Hi Augrabies Guru! I am missing your regular reports about the Augrabies night drive sightings! :roll: :pray:

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 Post subject: Re: Augrabies Night Drive Sightings
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:02 am 
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Location: I'd rather be in the bush !!!
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malealea wrote: To say it´s to "exhausting" to "expensive" to "difficult" that is no argument for me.


It seems like a very simplistic remark. Resources don't fall out of the sky and I do not for one moment think if the resources could be obtained and made available to Sanparks that they would in any way see it as too "exhausting" or "difficult". In an ideal world it would be possible to do everything, but unfortunately ........

If there is no funds then there is no personnel to be dedicated to full time monitoring, there is no equipment to assist with this (again - personnel needed to monitor these) etc etc. Maybe instead of criticizing come up with solutions - maybe you can donate money and resources seeming that it's no argument for you :hmz:


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 Post subject: Re: Augrabies Night Drive Sightings
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 8:21 pm 
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Hi Jan,

If I could I would help. But I do have a problem, most vacancies which are offered, are only for South African Pass Holders I don´t have a South African passboard, I´m German. So this door is closed. Unfortunaly by the way I would really want to work for SANP :whistle: But in terms of the high rate of unemployment in RSA fully understandable. (I don´t want to start a political discussion, so I will not refer to post, which are dealing with this Topic!!!!). To verifie my point of view. Today only one Vacancies for an Internship is done, and its is restrikted to South African Graduates http://www.sanparks.org/assets/docs/vac ... me-gnp.pdf :evil:

I Would Recommend an Comunity based Tourism (CBT) Projeckt like Malealea Lodge (To avoid missunderstandings I´m not the owner nor an employee. But in Lesotho that is one of my favorite places. Not that somebaody tells me to do undercover advertisment, which I Don´t want to do!!), Or we could a Community Based Nature Ressource Programm (CBNRM). The main aspekt ist to get the Community get involved in certain activities. That is one construckt, SANP will rent certain boundring Areas to extend Augrabies NP. SANP will pay a fee and this fee ist used to build up Infrastruckture. Secondly a lot of this village built up an Network, one of the biggest Funders are indeed Kellogs. On the other Hand SANP will have acces to human Power, when they are get trained from Experts. The whole System is quite komplex to tell it in Detail, but what I wrote down just now, will give you a rough clue what this projekts is all about.

Very good Names to use as an Exampel is NACOBTA in Namibia for CBT or CAMPFIRE in Zimbabwe.

Another possibility ist to increase the Rate of Internships. Of Course I can understand that you can´t take everybody but you could restrickt in Semestern e.g. At least you have to be in Sem. 3. We are now in the Stage of Internships and maybe Traines. And If I check up the Vacancies there are suprisingly little offers. That also might be a Key. The advantages with trainees, they do have already a degree, what you must do ist only roughly skill them . it is an Construckt of development of even more Skills (maybe Soft????)

I do see the Problem with the lack of Ressources, but to say yes it is a Problem, but No we can´t do anything is for me to simple. Problems are there of being solved ;-) . Therefor thank you to ask me for assistens.

Best Regards
Malealea

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 Post subject: Re: Augrabies Night Drive Sightings
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:45 pm 
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this discussion has been split from here

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion on monitoring in Augrabies.
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Quote:
That is one construckt, SANP will rent certain boundring Areas to extend Augrabies NP. SANP will pay a fee and this fee ist used to build up Infrastruckture.


Quote:
Another possibility ist to increase the Rate of Internships.


Quote:
but to say yes it is a Problem, but No we can´t do anything is for me to simple. Problems are there of being solved . Therefor thank you to ask me for assistens.


malealea - with all due respect, your comments just reiterate what I posted - with no money, how does Sanparks "rent certain boundering areas" ? And how do they "increase the Rate of Internship" By the way I did not ask you to become an employee of Sanparks, or to apply for a job - my reasoning is that everything you propose cost money - if you cannot see it a problem I ask you to donate the necessary funds. I am sure it is not a lack of willingness from Sanparks but a lack of the necessary means to do so. South Africa is not Germany with abounds in resources. According to your statements its not a problem to get sponsors and I therefore urge you to put your statement where your mouth is and organize that for Sanparks - the resources and possible sponsors in SA is scarce - as you are from abroad maybe you have some contacts that can assist Sanparks in this regard. Again I ask you rather to come up with a solution rather as to criticize Sanparks. It's also clear that you do not follow the current developments and drives for funding to keep Sanparks afloat. Our Government cut the contributions to Sanparks to the minimum and there are already some very controversial proposals made to keep them going. Again I plead with you to rather help than sit on the sideline and give orders.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion on monitoring in Augrabies.
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:37 pm 
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No we can´t do anything is for me to simple. Problems are there of being solved . Therefor thank you to ask me for assistens.


Thanks for posting this - who are the we you are referring to ? - if it includes you and we add "problems are there to be solved" into the equation then again I ask you to solve the problem. It is easy to criticize and put sentences together, but it is another thing to actually do something. What are you going to do other than blaming ?


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion on monitoring in Augrabies.
Unread postPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:51 pm 
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Hi Jan,

First of all I would really appreciate if you could use a neutral Tone. I don´t know if this was your aim or not but i feel you are attacking me now. :twisted:

If you would read my post properly you may see that I have done some exampels how that matter can be solved. I fully understand your concern, but SANP could be able to increase Sponsoring. I never said that organising Sponsoring will be easy, but it is not impossible. About Networks, I really looked it up at the HP I couldn´t find sponsors. It should be the aim of SANP to find Spomsors. That is what economy is all about to get a global Network and so far SANP is far away to that point. Yes you might argue that in South Afrika no Sponsorships will be able. Maybe you are right in Terms of South Afrika, but if you look a dimension higher you will recognise that gloablly spoken enough Sponsors are there. The Work of SANP are great I will not deny that, but nobody is perfeckt.

Internships, I know quite a lot of Organisations which earn money, with this Construckt. If the Cooperate some of the money from these Organisations might flew to SANP. But it will only work, if they open the Programm also for Foreign Persons like me. If they would give me an opportunity to do an Internship, I really wouldn´t expeckt a Salary. In Germany you have to do as a Master Student certain Internships. Very often they are not getting paid at all. That will be an easy Source to get human Power. Other Construck SANP might guide Students which are writing a BA, MA or Dr, Thesis. It will not cost alot. but you will have Brainpower.

Jan I assume you didn´t get the Point of CBT or CBNRM. I really ask you kindly to inform you. When even small Villages are able to the Projekt then I see no doubt that SANP will be able to succed.

Jan you can´t say we will not improve anything because we have no money. Then they really have to think about a System how miney can come in. But How should I adwise them? I don´t know the inner circle, but what I know, If no proper monitoring will be done, then South Africa will suffer because of an Overshoot. You are only able to proteckt something when you know it. Otherwise the whole thing will be an act of madness, because it won´t be possible.

And trust me I have dealt enough with this Topic, Monitoring, Human Wildlife Conflickt (HWC) Trophy Hunting (I´m not a hunter to avoid Missunderstandings) and so on.

Best regards

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion on monitoring in Augrabies.
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:22 pm 
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Location: I'd rather be in the bush !!!
Quote:
"In German" and "I don´t know the inner circle"
Quote:
precisely one of my points.

they really have to think about a System how miney can come in.
Quote:
Our Government cut the contributions to Sanparks to the minimum and there are already some very controversial proposals made to keep them going.
Meaning they are exactly doing that - looking for funding.

Quote:
I have dealt enough with this Topic, Monitoring, Human Wildlife Conflickt (HWC) Trophy Hunting (I´m not a hunter to avoid Missunderstandings) and so on.
Would appreciate if you could make those scripts available for us - as we need as much input as possible to see where we can maybe benefit from your experience.

I fully agree that Sanparks must think "outside the box" and be creative in securing funding (Although I sometimes already have opposed some of those ideas). Sanparks are not sitting back and also keep in mind that Sanparks do not only have Augrabies but a string of other Parks and not all of them are currently running on a profitable basis - some Parks are doing better than others regarding your proposals and on the point of monitoring. Its not even questionable that monitoring is needed for long term protection.

If monitoring of certain species and/or areas are the problem, maybe a comprehensive list of those must be put together with prioritizing and planning to address these in a sensible and sustainable manner.


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 Post subject: Re: Discussion on monitoring in Augrabies.
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:24 pm 
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Hi JanDup,

What I actually want to say, is that I will not be able to help SANP. Because I don´t know the Internas, that is what I actually mean with the Inner circle. You are right I don´t know what they are going to plan nor the reason for the lack of monitoring in Augrabies. So if I don´t have that details I only will be able to give you general Information. As I said in my earlier Post, maybe you will find a CBT or CBNRM Projeckt in that Area which is already running. If this is the case you might be able to Link in, which can creating for both sides positiv Effeckts.

One of the biggest steps of SANP will be, to offer vacancies not only for South African Citizens or South African graduates. It is possible to built up a Network with European Universities. I can imagine that certain German Universities would be happy. Esspecially in terms of the Human Wildlife Conflickt. I assume that you know that the Wolfs Population is increasing in Germany, evenso the Population is still too low to be statted as stable... . We could learn so much from the African Countries, because you are experienced with this kind of problems. On the other Hand you might benefit from us aswell. who knows?

Yes I fully understand the Issue with the money and yes you are right that will block everything. But the question will be how can that Problem be solved? Ok Funders, but as we statted already they are difficult to get. Another Option will be to tell the Government the importance of SANP in Terms of: Tourism, Natural Protection and solving the HWC. These three topics are linked together. If no money come from the state SANP could think about of privatisation themselves. I can imagine, that on the long run, building up a network is much easier, but I don´t have a scintifik verfication for that statement.

The Issue that I see is the shooting Rate either of Problem animals and Trophy hunting. If no monitoring exist, these Rates are nothing else then a guess. And indeed that will cause a Problem in Future. If you check up the population of animals zu might recognise the population of some species are decreasing. If this Scenario occur then you will digg you own grave, because the main foreign Visitors want to see the Game. If no Game occur you will loose this Visitors. It will be important to make that Point clear, esspecially in Terms of the Government. I assume that they don´t know the consequences if they shut down the money, as you already staated.

About critics. Critics are not bad, as far as they are construktiv. If I´m correct I did it contructively. It will help nobody if everybody is quiet and say amen to everything. That will not work. If I see, that mistakes occur (of course in my oppinion!) I will critize them. So that they are able to improve themselfes. I don´t want to punish them at all, it the opossite case. My aim is to help. Sometimes you don´t see the Problems anymore, because you are working too long in that company. So you are always dependend from the Tourist Statement. If and what you are gonna improove, that is up to you.

Best Regards
Malealea

p.s. I really want to hand in my BA Thesis but they are in German. I guess that will not help alot.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion on monitoring in Augrabies.
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 4:12 pm 
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Please could we wait for more information on what actually happens before making the sort of sweeping statement you have made above?

Now SANParks used to have a link with Global Volunteers International (GVI) who gave year long internships to student volunteers. I'm not sure if this relationship is still ongoing but perhaps its something you should look into if you are serious about helping out.

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 Post subject: Re: Discussion on monitoring in Augrabies.
Unread postPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Hi Saraf,

Evenso I´m very keen to help you, but I´m not able to pay nearly 10.000 Pounds for a year. Flight exklusive! But I have to state, that I found it today in the evening. But because of the lack of money this is not an alternative for me.

Saraf, Can you do me a favour? What do yo mean with Sweep? Yes I do criticise that for an foreign Student, it will be nearly impossible to join SANP. If you have other open vacancies they are restrickted, if you interprete it as a Sweep, then it´s a pittty. as I stated earlier It doesn´t make sense if everybody saying Yes and Amen an shut there eyes of the Issues, which occur. I know Critick is never nice, but sometimes we have to swallow all our pride.

To what are we waiting for actually???

Best Regards

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