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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:48 am 
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@Clint,

Very warm welcome to the SANParks forum hope you will have a great time here.

Regarding your question about children not allowed at a wilderness camp and then on day walks.

The main reason is safety not only that of the child but those around it as well. Children and woman (with all due respect) their voices sounds like helpless cries when they speak and in the animal kingdom with predators that means a easy meal, and can and will attract predators to come and investigate, predators realize that it is a young 'animal'. On the other hand the size of a child counts against them, it has been tested (I have seen it and tested it) when a predator sees the size of the child it is immediately attracted/ interested to the small 'animal' and even then the predators know that it wouldn’t run very fast and would be easy prey.

On walks I do understand the fact that there are plenty children who is walk fit and have done walking all over the world, BUT remember in KTP we have Lions, Leopard and other predators, if the trail does walk into a potentially dangerous situation, we could almost safely say that adults would adhere to the guides orders and would not run, (Most adults could control their emotions in a dangerous situation better than children)with children it is just so unpredictable that their head would tell them it’s dangerous and they need to get away from the situation. Therefore to make sure that other trailists are safe and the guides and that a potentially dangerous situation doesn’t arise there are an age limit on walks.

I hope this helps, even if it was maybe not what you wanted to hear.

Have a great one

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:59 am 
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Just to reiterate some of what has been said:

We were lucky enough to be part of a tour in a rehibilitation centre for predators last year, and we were in a group of four, with a small (roughly 9-10years old) child. At each enclousure there were obviously wild predators being rehibilitated. We did not once walk past any enclousure where one predator didn't immediately crouch into hunting mode, and single out the child.

I am not saying children are irresponsible, loud etc, in fact the opposite, BUT I would be very wary in future if a child was on a walk with me. Just need to watch or research any predator, you will in most cases realise the almost always single out sick, young/helpless or old prey.....

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:32 pm 
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I totally agree KG.

A few years ago, we went to a rehab facility outside Kruger. My youngest was about 10 and the group was led to an enclosure with a leopard ready to be released in it. While we were there, the leopard came and stood opposite my son, no matter were he moved. If the fence had not been there he would have been a meal.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:39 pm 
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Thanks Dotty, Jannie and Inyati for your well argumented answers and warm welcome.

@Jannie: Would your reasoning that children appear as easy prey to predators also lead you to counsel against children coming along on the Nossob Eco Trail excursion? Yes, we will have a bakkie with roof tents but the campsites on the trail are obviously not fenced in.

We have the Nossob Eco Trail from Twee Rivieren to Nossob penciled in (but not booked yet, I was going to do that today) from Mon 22 through Thu 25 Aug 2011. Biting my lips now, since that would deal a blow to our holiday planning. As for going on an early morning walk, point taken, we will have to draw straws who gets to go and who has to stay in camp with our son.


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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Well done KG with the speed camera. Hope the message gets home and you can stop the problem before it gets out of control. (Give KNP some tips re the cameras!!)

I agree with what has been said about children and predators. My daughter is 23 but is tiny and she had a similar experience at a rehab. place. Everyone else walked between the enclosures OK and then the lions rushed at the fence when she walked past!

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:17 pm 
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@Clint,

With the 4x4 trail you will have a armed guide 24/7 with you and he will be with the people all the time and they do know their animal behavior, as long as they adhere to the rules that would not be a problem.
During the 4x4 there is more than enough 'escape routes' such as vehicles etc and therefore safe to have kids on the 4x4. So stop biting the lips and feel free to book the 4x4 trail

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:26 pm 
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@ Jannie

Great news, thank you !


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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:36 pm 
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Thanks to all forumites which have helped the park in sending pictures of visitors not adhering to the rules, all pictures received has been followed up and the respective people have been fines, some asked to leave the park.

What I can’t understand is that we have put the rules in the permits, we have people patrolling the roads and even put up signs not to get out of the vehicles, then the following (picture below) still happens.

Image

Right next to the sign letting you know you cant get out, they still get out......EISH....

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:10 pm 
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The following pictures were taken at the same spot where the person in the above posting got out of his car.

Don't think we have to explain AGAIN why you shouldn't get out of your vehicle. (Thanks to Brian Moore for submitting the pictures).

Image

If Lions understand and adhere why can't HUMANS....

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:57 pm 
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They actually do fit in very well.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:27 pm 
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I got another one taken at the lookout at Kij Gamies...

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Be alert, stay alive by katydownunder, on Flickr

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:56 pm 
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Katydownunder and KG (on behalf of Brian Moore),

Thanks for the pics of the lions at the sign illustrating the fact why its not allowed to get out. It looks as if the lion wanted to remove the one sign and thought by himself that he can get an easy meal if people do not notice the sign.

In some of the latest trip reports there were some classic examples why one even needs to take care at picnic sites and Wilderniscamps before getting out of your car or even cabin (Katy will know why)

I just want to share my pic of Melkvlei picnic area, where not only people come and sit down for a meal.
pic missing

The lions were just around the dune when I took these pic. Only heard them roaring afterwards when I was already at the picnic table enjoying a cup of coffee.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:33 pm 
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Here is more proof why we should discourage people to 'just' get out of their cars, even at picnic spots! Make absolutely sure you are not being stalked by hungry lions! Thank you KG for this informative thread.

I have taken these pictures at Dikbaardskolk at 12:20 on the 29th December '10. Apperently there were three of them earlier that morning!:

Image

Just after this a tourist passenger van stopped here, did not see the lion and got out of the car! When I told him there was a lion about five meters from him, he did not believe me at first!

Image

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DO NOT FORGET:
Predators at Picnic Sites, Waterholes and Toilets in KTP!


Last edited by Fotomaljohan on Fri Mar 04, 2011 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:24 pm 
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Fotomaljohan,

Even if you do not see any lions, you must throw a few stones towards the entrance of the toilet. They like to sleep in the shade of the spiral passage leading to the loo. Well behave lions. Eat at tables and use the loo.

We saw a pic taken at Dikbaardskolk of a lion exiting the loo on our first visit to Nossob in 1998 at the information centre. I wonder if there is some-one with a similar foto to show. Yes old habits do not die. Its carried over from one generation to another. (That's now the lions I am referring to)

The toilets in your pic look different from our first visit. It used to be a round tower like structure with in a spiral entrance, made from rocks.

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 Post subject: Re: Why can’t or shouldn’t I...........?
Unread postPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:25 am 
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These pictures are great.

If there are anybody (or anybody you know) with similar pictures of predators near or at areas where guests get out, would you please be so kind to forward them to me at jank@sanparks.org I will see that we can make a stand where these pictures could be displayed where guests can see them

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