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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 8:58 am 
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Hi Peter - yes it is an interesting bit of lion history. From what I can gather they have not left any of SS out of their marauding plans and there is virtually not a single pride that has not been impacted on in some way!

I believe that the dude with the fancy hairdo's in the beautiful pictures posted above is none other than Mr. T of the Mapogos! I am endeavouring to find out more so hopefully will be able to add to this thread in the fullness of time!

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:08 am 
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These are called the Nossob brothers,Jan and Freak,I think!
Pic taken Sept.07.


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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:21 pm 
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Ah ha - the Kgalagadi lions and if I am not mistaken they had a famous Mum called Ou Sis!

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 3:28 pm 
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Peter Betts wrote
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wonder what would happen if the Mapogas were to meet the Coalition that Gunner and Johan and others mention East of Satara...my understanding those guys would be cleaned up by the Mapogas as all S100 type lions are moffies :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 4:01 pm 
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Ingrid, thanks for that lovely pic of Jan and Freek ( we saw them with their mother, Ousus, when they were only about 6 weeks old ).

They were shown to us at Bedinkt by Piet Hymans, who followed their mother throughout her life and who published the book - Ousus of the Kalahari :D

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:17 pm 
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Hey guys....

I have some more info on the mapogos for you....

They moved up into the djuma section and the buffelshoek section of SS and affected the nkuhuma pride which at that stage had 15 cubs in total, fathered by the two pride males, namely Dozie and Blondie... Blondie was unfortunately killed by the mapogos and dozie fled into manyelthi followed closely by the nkuhuma pride... To date the mapogos have killed 6 or more cubs and a female from the mapogos.. Ironic because when the nkuhuma's moved into the djuma area they started killing of the hyena population and killed the sandypatch female... The mapogos are moving back down into the mala mala area and areas around there and have seemed to have split, two males hang around the upper mala mala section and the Chitwa/nkorho section (with the styx pride) and the three others have moved into mala mala again.... Mala mala have given them the name of the eyrefield males and they are in charge of the eyrefield pride... Two more males from manyelethi have moved into the area of djuma and have proclaimed it as there own... Also the mapogo's where a coalition of 6 until one was either killed, or its disappered because no one has seen him again... They are truly spectacular.. Was hoping to meat them on my last visit to the djuma area but only got to meet one of them... Did get to meat Dozie though who on that night was looking for trouble, roaring and moving back into the area the mapogo's where in, Blondie was the dominant male of the two before he was killed and he was killed while mating with the styx pride females.... I am fasinated by this coalition and hope to meet them one day....

p.s. this is the info i have been given by various owners of the different lodges and from a few guides.. Also from the wildearth.tv site which is a great help... Let me find you a clip which i really suggest sensitive viewers dont watch...

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:30 pm 
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http://wildearth.ning.com/video/dozie-roaring

Dozie the lion roaring

http://wildearth-media.blogspot.com/200 ... -town.html

Mapogo furry(Warning to sensitive viewers) Its a video of the mapogo's killing cubs in the arathusa section

Just go here and you'll see the nkuhuma female they killed, don't want to have it go striaght to the video
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:44 pm 
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Thanks timbo for the links - they are really a wild bunch :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:46 pm 
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Pleasure billyf... They most certainely are...

Also heard a rumour that they killed there mother but i know that isn't true...

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 2:49 pm 
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Are they all brothers from the same mother? (Bet their father ran away :D )

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 3:00 pm 
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From what i know, they aren't they joined up when they were nomadic... But the eyrefield pride mentioned above has 9 cubs 5-6 of which are male, so there will be another big coalition in the near future

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:32 pm 
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Wow thanks Timbo for getting all that up to date info..Thats right Mala Mala does have an Eyrefield Pride named after one of the farms in the MM stable..Jeepers if they go one farm further south they will be onto Flockfield then Charleston and then Kirkmans Camp (Toulon Farm)...the 3 farms where the mighty Charleston Pride operates...and at one time consisted of 36 lions but these days I would say 20 as max at any one time.

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:32 am 
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This info concerns the 5 male (initially 6 {not sure what happened to the 6th who was infact the oldest} males} lions that dominate the Sabi Sands at present - response to initial info from the Male Coalition Thread.

Ok latest on mapogos-I have to say although some good info on this forum, some of the points mentioned are incorrect.
Whether you call it the Dudley Pride, Spartan Pride or Eyrefield Pride, that the Mapogos originated from, its all the same pride that Spends its time mostly on Mala Mala, Dudley and Londolozi.

If you want to go to see the family history of the males go to malamala.com and click on the 'wildlife' icon and under lions you get plenty of info on the Eyrefield Pride, amongst other, over the last few years-this is the pride that they came from and has plenty of monthly updates.
They split away from this pride and eventually started to take over the Sabi Sands but mostly in the Western Sector, killing a lot of lions in their wake and decimating at least 2 small prides that I had seen. They didnt stop at cubs and males but also adult females.

As they are around the ages of 6 and 7 they are getting more settled into a territory . This territory includes the western sector mostly for all 5 adult males and 2 of the males (damaged nose and damaged tail individuals) tend to venture out eastwards and have shown a lot of interest in the Styx Pirde (7 females and 9 cubs) and have probably been the reason for the death of about 3 or 4 cubs of the initial 12 or so that there were present a few months back.
THe Styx Females have been fighting back and stand their ground while a female or two and the Rollercoaster Male (survivor of a coalition of 4 males that still holds on to central MM) escorts the cubs to safety. Every now and then the 5 males all make the visit across the Sand River to the Main Camp area of Mala Mala but it does seem that 3 of the males spend more time in the west - this could lead to a split in the coalition.

As far as their viewing in Djuma goes (always a lot of action up there), I had also heard that they killed one of the 2 brothers (Blondie) after they the 5 Mapogos had initially been chased by them, only to return a day or two later to stamp their authority by killing one of the males. I have to say though that I dont think they leave the Sabi Sands at all if ever but perhaps they went as far east as the S36 in Kruger and maybe a once off nomadic visit to Mudzanzeni but Penny I am 99% sure that those must be other males if viewed frequently, as SS always keeps tabs on their animals and as far as I know they are always there.

As far as the concern for the Charleston Pride is concerned well they have composed 5 females for the last few years and at present have a few cubs. This pride spends most time in KNP close to the SE corner of Sabi Sands and as far as I know they never encounter the Mapogos.

The big pride that also move onto CHarleston is the Selati Pride (regularly around 15 members in early part of this decade) or Southern Pride as known in Lion Sands and Sabi Sabi. I have seen them with 6 females at most and 3 young males about 5 years old - this was in 06. THe males (2 left) havnt been pushed out so have mated with their mothers and sisters and have 10 healthy cubs. Also an apparent Split away from this pride is the HildesRock Pride (Spelling?) as known in Lion Sands which includes 3 adult females 3 now adult males and 1 now adult female. THey hang around to the North and West of Skukuza mostly and you can find them near the airstrip often! ALl these lion hav not felt the effects of the Mapogos.

Finally the Mapogos natal pride was in serious trouble with 3 struggling females holding last hope for this awesome pride-in May 2007 to about July 2007 they have raised 9 cubs up to now almost to adult hood an amazing feet - its been a pleasure watching them grow. The cubs include 5 males and 4 females and all look good to reach adulthood at this stage meaning that the odds are fair of this pride producing another formidable male coalition. Interestingly this pride and the Mapogos havent crossed paths much if at all although they have come into a few hundred metres of each others territories. Its almost as though the Mapogos know to keep away from their SIster/Aunts/Moms to avoid inbreeding. But time will tell and if the do meet the encounter would be fascinating in terms of whether the 5 males would kill the large cubs as genetically speaking the cubs are as related to each of the 5 mapogo males as they are to at least 1 of the 3 females, the sister(s) of these notorious males.

Anyway these 5 males are truly amazing - they even kill rhinos! I have heard unofficially that they have killed more than 10 (be it calves, sub adults, whatever) would be interesting to know. Seeing all 5 of them roar in unison and then later on swim in the Sand River after some Dugga Boys has to be a highlight!

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:03 am 
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Thanks for the excellent info! :thumbs_up:

Animal behaviour is fascinating! This again shows that there are individual and group personalities, but also broader instinctive social rules that govern animal behaviour.

We actually know so little!

There are so much more to the bush than just ticking your next sighting!

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 Post subject: Re: Coalition of Male Lions!
Unread postPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:04 am 
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This is just such exciting information! Having seen that huge pride at the Mazithi dam and news that there is a big pride on the Vutomi road towards the waterhole.As the crow flies these areas are not so far away from each other it would be great to know the bigger picture.
Cant wait to get back in Feb, will look at these lions with new eyes.
Bornfree.

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